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2024 - Dublin STILL ranked as second worst city in the Europe for traveling by car

1356

Comments

  • #62
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115296#Comment_123115296

    It won't be 80B. But if somehow prices inflated to that level, then yes it should still go ahead.

    It is a critical piece of infrastructure without which the city will grind to a halt (it already is to an extent)



  • #63
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115296#Comment_123115296

    The cost is not going to balloon that much, so it's an unreasonable hypothetical, but essentially yes. There is almost no realistic scenario where, with the sunk cost that would be involved, that it would not make sense to finish desperately needed infrastructure. "work from home" is not a solution.

    A metro is needed, likely more than one. The sooner it is built the better and cheaper it will be.



  • #64
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,928 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123107475#Comment_123107475

    There is a finate amount of cars not infinate.

    Also as already shown the number of cars entering the city has been dropping for years, the traffic is still appalling though.

    Again, if you want to save time, reduce congestion, reduce pollution: then get people where the need to go as fast as possible OR make it so that they dont need to go anywhere OR make it so that the journey is short.

    There's no joined up thinking, thats the main problem.



  • #65
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,928 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115307#Comment_123115307

    The Childrens Hospital was orginally over estimated at 800m, that over estimatation was completely wrong and turned out to be 3.5B, Over 4 times the prices of the deliberate over estimate.

    OPW just built a wall for €0.5M, €0.33M for a bike shelter, €1.4M for a security hut…. the waste and jobs for the boys is everywhere.

    I'm not saying don't build it, I am saying don't build it at any cost.

    Work from Home was a solution for 2 years, and it worked great. Why do you think it's not a solution?
    I'm contracted to come to office 3 days a week but I come 4, becuase I do kinda like the office, people will still come to the office especially if their teams are based out of the same office.



  • #66
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,860 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115347#Comment_123115347

    You describe it as waste & jobs for the boys but was the original design of the NCH the same as what has been built to date? There has been massive amounts of scope creep in the plans for the NCH.

    The building of the wall you refer to came in on budget if you look at the detail. What drove the costs over budget were the Electrical and DCC charges for unforseen issues. Where was the waste with either project? Where were the jobs for the boys?

    The final cost of a metro will depend on the original design and how many changes to that are required - some of these changes will be essential due to unforseen issues (like the wall) but I'd say some would be changes made to placate nimbys (the latter being wasteful but the former would not be )



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  • #67
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115347#Comment_123115347

    Where are you getting 3.5Bn from? It is about 2.4Bn.

    The Metrolink estimate is 9-13Bn. It has also spent an absurd amount of time in planning and those plans are meticulous. Scope creep is far less likely to be an issue.

    "What if we forced Dublin to become a ghost town instead" is not a serious solution to anything. There is no realistic scenario in which it should not be built.

    And when it is built, of course, people will continue to come up with new excuses to continue driving.



  • #68
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,928 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115426#Comment_123115426

    I disagree
    There was already a wall there, that there was nothing wrong with… Have you looked at the before and after pics?

    Why does there even need to be a wall that high there?

    2017 - Google maps

    image.png

    New Wall:

    image.png

    €490k for that?

    Just because something is written down on a piece of paper doesn't mean it's "ok".
    For example if I have on a piece of paper that I'm going to sell you Mars Bars and I'm charging you €20 for each bar, and you're paying for it with public money… That's not ok.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115546#Comment_123115546

    My Apologies, you are correct. it is €2.24B i heard on the news a few month ago that the costs could Spiral to €3.4.
    Even still, that's a hell of a lot more that the €800m (Nearly 3 times the prices)



  • #69
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,860 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115761#Comment_123115761

    My Apologies, you are correct. it is €2.24B i heard on the news a few month ago that the costs could Spiral to €3.4.
    Even still, that's a hell of a lot more that the €800m (Nearly 3 times the prices)

    Was what was agreed to be built for €800m the exact same as what was built for €2.24bn and, if not, why not?



  • #70
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,928 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123116078#Comment_123116078

    Becuase of poor planning, poor design choices, logistics issues, poor location choice, excessive changes and alterations to the existing poor plan.

    Thats how the costs has gone nuts.

    As for The Wall, The Hut and the Shed… that's OPW rubbish.

    Look, I get a different team is going to be building Metro and I want it to be built, but built "at any cost" is not acceptable. I'm not prepapred to burden my kid and grand kids with an unreasonable tax burden for a light rail system that they might never use. They're already goosed with pension / aging work force issue.



  • #71
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Lol! The budget is a pittance... we spend what here ? 80 or 90 billion a a year... what's a one off , ten billion, much of which recirculates in the economy, nothing...

    They didn't want to build it, when in would have cost far less, ten years ago etc...

    Your proposal for those thar could work from home. Is ditch metro link, because now there us no need for it ? Get real

    As for the office of public waste. Totally agree, they need to be disbanded



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  • #72
    sasal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭sasal


    What hope is there are TDs blocking people accessing buses.

    https://irishcycle.com/2025/02/02/td-keeps-pushing-against-bus-and-cycling-access-in-estate-with-highest-car-mode-share-in-dublin/



  • #73
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,928 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123131110#Comment_123131110

    The wall they want knocked down is right across from the road from where there was serious protests last year.

    No one is Ayrfield wants the wall knocked. Cycling lobbyists want it knocked down so they can cut through, and they're arguing that it's about access to a bus stop for the people of Ayrfield. Actually sounds disgusting.



  • #74
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123133876#Comment_123133876

    So do you think that troublemakers can't get over a wall into an estate? It's not the North/South Korean border you know!

    Have you conducted a comprehensive survey that backs up your assertion that no one in the estate would like access to a well serviced bus corridor, thus reducing the high dependency on single motor vehicle usage in that estate?

    "Cycling lobbyists want it knocked down" one transport related journalist doesn't equate to an entire "cycling lobby"…whoever they are..



  • #75
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,279 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123133876#Comment_123133876

    you're being ridiciculous. i used to live just off the tonlegee road until last year. loads and loads of adults and schoolkids that live in ayrefield take buses from the malahide road to school and work and this would knock a good bit of time off some of their walks to the bus. it's more to benefit pedestrians rather than cyclists anyway, so you can't blame cyclists this time.



  • #76
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123086454#Comment_123086454

    This. 100%



  • #77
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,279 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    there are just too many cars for dublin's streets, we have no choice but to transition to more efficient ways of transporting people around. i was up at my folks last night and there was a bloody traffic jam in front of the shops nearby, we used to play football here all the time outside these shops, look at it now, and this is what it looks like when it's quiet. cars dumped everywhere. i haven't seen children playing here in about 20 years, longer even. people used to just walk to these shops.

    image.png


  • #78
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123389036#Comment_123389036

    Until we get an underground metro network, the problem will continue to get worse unfortunately.



  • #79
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,097 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123397095#Comment_123397095

    It’ll change nothing.

    The narcissism of a large amount of motorists much be challenged now.



  • #80
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123397808#Comment_123397808

    It would change a lot if we had a full underground network. Not just a single North to South line via the airport.

    I dont think a lot of commuters at the moment really have a viable alternative.

    Buses are basically the option.

    Buses that are far slower than cars, get cancelled because there arent enough drivers and get caught in the same traffic as cars.

    We arent going to win hearts and minds with buses.



  • #81
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,097 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    We’re not gonna have anything metro wise bar half a line that we were promised in ten years time. At best.

    The idea of waiting for some mythical metro network isn’t sustainable.

    Society shouldn’t be subsiding motorists and allowing them to privatise public spaces and all the inconveniences and dangers their selfish actions bring.



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  • #82
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    It's the old trope for a lot of people "until I get a multi billion €uro state of the art transport system right to my door I'm not going to change my habits"..

    When we can all change our habits now, for free or for very low cost by walking, cycling, getting the Bus/Dart/Train/Luas..



  • #83
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,928 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123398258#Comment_123398258

    If you want cars off the road, make it so that no body needs to commute.

    People who can work from home should be allowed to work from home.

    Allowing people to work from home is the quickest, easiest and most effective solution to the congestion and infra issues we have right now.

    No business based in a city wants this though.



  • #84
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,928 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123398385#Comment_123398385

    People habits are changing, I get the DART and Luas every morning and they're both Jammed, the Luas in particular.

    I previously was collecting my kid from school on Fridays using public transport, however the slowness and S6 ghost buses have began to push me back towards the Car and M50 in recent weeks.

    The service just isnt there, or if it is, it's at capacity.

    Buses are D/F-tier public transport. They are slow and unreliable (And it's not becuase of "Private Cars")



  • #85
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,812 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123398385#Comment_123398385

    Our public transport system is a joke though.

    Ive better things to be doing with my time stnding at bus stops watching "Due" on the app/sign and then no bus arriving. Have experienced this a few times in the last couple of months.

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/dublin-commuters-call-for-action-as-ghost-buses-remain-an-issue-on-s8-route/a235231252.html

    https://www.dublininquirer.com/new-bus-tracking-system-to-tackle-ghost-buses-and-disappearing-buses/

    https://noshowbus.ie/

    And then theres the nightmare that is the TFI app



  • #86
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123399833#Comment_123399833

    I often find that people who declare Dublin's transport system "A complete Joke" are the ones who would want an empty bus to arrive at their door when it suits them and whisk them off to the front entrance of their destination without so much as a 5 mins wait for the Bus/Train/Luas..

    It's rare that a bus wouldn't show up on time, the vast majority arrive as stated.



  • #87
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123399833#Comment_123399833

    And you know the ones who complain about the slowness of PT are also the ones who will chain themselves to the garden gate to stop the likes of Bus connects, or if the NTA want to remove a lane of traffic to install a Bus lane claiming that the councils are breaching their human rights..

    Just look at the War out in Bray when they tried to do a redesign for bus connects.. I thought we would see armed Militia on the streets ready to take out any construction workers!

    What do we want!? Better public transport! When do we want it? NOW! … Ok we're going to install a better road system through your area… Oh no… not our area.. somewhere else…!

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/bray-news/south-dublin-village-group-fundraises-to-mount-legal-challenge-against-bus-corridor-plans/a1654487618.html

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/bray-news/protesters-against-plan-to-close-major-co-wicklow-n11-junction-backed-by-significant-council-decision/a1504744461.html



  • #88
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123399803#Comment_123399803

    Exactly this. Buses arent going to get people out of their cars, especially when they are unreliable and take way longer than driving.

    Its an Underground network or we continue as we are, with car usuage continuing to grow.



  • #89
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123401349#Comment_123401349

    If only there was a mode of transport that did all of those things...

    Oh wait, the car does go door to door, is very reliable and is there at the exact moment you want it.

    It is comfortable, quiet and not full of annoying/inconsiderate passengers.

    It's a hard sell to pick the bus over a car, unless you are limited by cost factors.



  • #90
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123401379#Comment_123401379

    Answer me this.. What would our roads look like if instead of the 1000's who walk, bike, or get PT each day instead decided to hop into a single occupant Car?



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  • #91
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123401424#Comment_123401424

    Its great to see active travel, especially walking and cycling, but the point is that there is a large proportion of commuters who wont give up their cars for a bus.

    A fair proportion of those people would give up their cars for an underground system that was quicker than the car, and as reliable as the car: Buses are generally neither of those two things.



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