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New zonal ticketing system for the Dublin Commuter Zone from Jun 1, 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    tag on the bus and tag off at the stop when you get off. Would require huge infrastructure investment though



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, I totally see that, I think our flat 90 minute fare is very much driven by our heavy dependency on buses and their current operating model.

    I will say, having used buses in Amsterdam, their dwell time is much faster then Dublin Bus, even with the tag-off. The remaining single door buses and needing to go to the driver for the short fare and cash fares, along with how slow tag-on is, kills our dwell time versus people quickly tagging off at the back door as others enter via the front door in Amsterdam.

    I will say tag-on/off is noticeably faster in Amsterdam, likely more modern and faster ticket machine/readers.

    Also many buses in Amsterdam are 3/4 door (though not all), so it is enter via the front door, but exit via any of the multiple rear doors. With multiple rear doors that speeds it up.

    Though I do think in the long term our system has the potential to freatly improve, once we get rid of the last of the single doors, get rid of the cash fares and no ticket machines/readers.

    Though I do still wonder how we handle the short fare in future. Would optional tag-off at the rear door for the short fare not be faster then having to ask the driver for the short fare?

    I know there is possibility for people to tag-off early, but then that isn't much different then people just asking the driver for a short fare and travelling much further, which I've seen happen! Both have to be dealt with by ticket inspectors. In the end it is just a 50c difference, so perhaps not worth really worrying about.

    Perhaps the easiest all round would be to just drop the short fare all together and make it a €2 flat 90 minute fare. No need to worry about the extra cost of tag-off readers, ticket inspectors or slowing down boarding with driver interaction.

    Of course the Polish/Luas model (3/4 doors, enter/exit through any door) is by far the fastest dwell time model, no comparison.

    I'm not a fan of the split in London between buses and trains, I think our model is superior to it, at least once we get faster readers, contactless ticketing and rid of the cash fares.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    7,000 stops I think, would cost a fortune, probably just cheaper and easier to do what we are doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Yeah I see what mean about the fare difference between bus and rail in London. I was more thinking for stations further out like Greystones, Rush and Lusk, Balbriggan, Sallins etc.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BTW I amended my post above to point out that Amsterdam has many 3/4 door buses. It is enter through the front door, but exit through any of the rear doors which speeds up the tag-off time.

    I do think our system as the potential to top London, though still short of Amsterdam or even the gold standard of the Polish/Luas model.

    BBTW Interestingly Amsterdam has it's readers on the trams, rather then off the tram/Luas like ours.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Eh equitable is a bit of a strong word. People who are commuting much longer distances are probably the ones least able to afford it, vs folk who can walk to work or catch a two stop.bus ride. People who are commuting for hours out of their day pay enough in that tbh.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    People who are commuting much longer distances are probably the ones least able to afford it

    I don't know why you would think that?! Someone living in a social flat in Dublin inner city, versus someone living in a large one off house in Wicklow!

    Though with the Amsterdam model, the person going two stops is actually paying more per km then the person going 10 or 20km, due to the high initial flat fare.

    "So if you travel just 2km, you pay €1.40, while someone travelling 10km pays €3, etc."

    2km works out as 1.40 / 2 = 70 cent/km
    10km works out as 3 / 10 = 30 cent/km



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭TokTik


    All towns in Co Dublin on the track should be involved. It’s not like north of Swords is very well served as it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Lot's of working class Dubs being pushed out as far as Portlaoise, Gorey and Mullingar due to being priced out of the Dublin market. Not everyone living outside of Dublin is living in a mansion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭Taisteal Éireann


    I'm assuming the parts of the City Bus Network that are in Zone 2 will still be treated as part of the 23km Dublin City Zone? Dublin Bus and Go-Ahead operated routes in places like Greystones, Newtown, Blessington, Skerries, Balbriggan, etc.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Assume so. I can't see a return of the outer suburban fare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭D8 boy


    All Dublin Bus services and GAI "ODMA" (i.e. ex-Dublin Bus) services are valid with a Dublin City Zone ticket. So while you will need a Zone 2 ticket to travel to Balbriggan by IÉ or BÉ, a Dublin City Zone ticket will work on the 33.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Can easily make the same equivalent argument of somebody living in a luxury apartment in Grand Canal Dock vs a council house in Celbridge.

    If somebody is commuting 1.5hr+ by public transport each direction, each day, they aren't likely doing it by choice, rather forced to do it because of the reality of the housing market we find ourselves in.

    There are definitely wealthy people who choose to live outside of Dublin, but by and large they are the same folk who drive big expensive cars in and out from South County Dublin and are immaterial to costings of Public Transport



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    To be clear, that is what I'm saying. Lots of well off people living in both the city and far outside the city, but also plenty of less well off people living in both the city and far outside the city.

    So I don't think you can charge based on perceived wealth of the users!

    It is a pretty simple concept in transport that the further you travel the more you pay. After all no one expects to pay the same to fly to San Francisco as you would to London!

    We also have to be careful not to be subsidise distant low density suburban/rural sprawl which makes it difficult and expensive to deliver high quality public transport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,601 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    price increase for Greystones commuters, that'll go down well just after they've screwed around with the bus routes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Public Transport fares aren't going be what fixes sprawl, increasing fares does however make folk who have no other choice but to live in commuter belts situations much worse.

    There are far more wealthy folk who live in Dublin who also use public transport than those who live in the commuter belt. However if you live in the commuter belt **and** you are also one of the unfortunates commuting for an hour and a half, you're likely doing this for lack of a better option.

    It's why I feel at least the flat fares which we do have of 2 euro for 90 minutes are an excellent equaliser.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,311 ✭✭✭pad199207


    Ditto for Naas/Sallins. Naas and Greystones are integral parts of the Dublin Suburban Area



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭Polar101


    It looks like the 139 bus service is only included in the Commuter Zone 2 ticket, but not in the Dublin City Zone ticket.. that seems a bit odd. Even though half of the route is inside the City Zone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 naturalblue


    After, reading the document it seems mostly a good idea but won't be great for some (like myself).

    I get the bus from Enfield (currently green zone on the point to point system) - the ticket costs €1,472.00

    Under the new ticket I will be in Zone 3 - Ticket will cost €1,960.00

    I know I would have use of the train, Luas, Dublin bus under the new ticket but they are of no use to me.

    The train is too infrequent (doesn't start early enough to get me to work, last trains back are early compared to the bus especially on Sat/Sun - 19:30)

    I almost never have a reason to use the LUAS or Dublin bus. So for someone outside of Blue Zone/Zone 2 things will get dearer although you would still realistically have the same level of service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,601 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    same in Greystones - I don't use Taxsaver any more but when I did I just bought the short hop rail only for €1150. Now that has been scrapped and Greystones has been exiled out to zone 2 where an all services taxsaver is €1400. Also the individual fares are increasing - we're considered "Dublin" for the bus services but not the train, more anomaly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Unfortunately, with any border line drawn there will always be those that win and those that lose. This applies to every city that has zonal fare systems. Why am I on one side and not the other. In short it has to be based on distances. The €2 fare can't cover out into the GDA and the same goes for this ticket which is actually cheaper than using 5 x €2 90 minute tickets after tax on the top rate per week. There is a very heavily subsidised system in place.

    The reality has to be faced, that unfortunately some people have to commute longer distances and there has to be a cost to this. This has always been the case henceforth. If you drive in your car, you will use more petrol and cost more too. Its a basic concept for travel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,601 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    true, but they could have started this exercise with the caveat that no fares would increase as a result. Increasing public transport fares is a retrograde step, even if only a couple of places are affected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    they would argue there is no increase, the dearer ticket provides use on more modes. Would probably be useless to most though which is a de facto increase



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,718 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It is being implemented on the basis of being a revenue neutral project overall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭D8 boy


    @Polar101 - I checked that with the Taxsaver team. They confirmed that the Dublin City zone product will cover any stops on the 139 service within that zone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭D8 boy


    It's not clear if the current Bus Éireaan tickets are being withdrawn. They are not included in the table of withdrawn tickets on page 1. I'll try to find out from the Taxsaver office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭piplip87


    I see prices on the 109x route will increase. I suppose when you have full or nearly full busses every morning and evening theres no point in reducing fares.

    Although given the queues for the 109x in the evening at Bus Aras they obviously underestimated the size of their "commuter zones".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,718 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 naturalblue


    Thanks for this. It still proves that for no usable extra services my yearly ticket will increase by almost 500 euro.



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