Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Seanw how is Israel's situation in Gaza all out war?

Israel are a very well equipped military with tanks, an air force, a navy, top of the range weaponry and military drones, extremely durable military transport and a large arsenal of weapons, both handheld all the way up to ones capable of mass destruction. Billions and billions of dollars are going into their army each year.

They are fighting a militia armed with rocket launchers, automatic weapons, and driving around on pickup trucks. No tanks on their side, no air force, no navy.

Look at the casualties - there are far far more deaths on the Palestinian side (95 / 96%?), and the overwhelming number of these have been civilian women and children.

Israel are going all out against a militia and taking out their collective anger on innocent people. Their politicians are openly calling all Palestinians, including children, snakes who need to purged from this earth (this was a quote I saw from a further justice minister). Others are openly saying none in Gaza are innocent etc. Israeli extremist settlers are violently ousting people from their homes, murdering people, and Israeli politicians are refusing to prosecute them.

This is unabashed colonialism and ethnic cleansing. Tell me what, factually, I have got wrong above.

I just dunno how someone who I assume is moral in everyday life, can look at all of this and say it is justified, no less go on the internet and try to defend it (usually by slandering the other person, and not dealing with the actual argument).

The cognitive dissonance is astounding. If you're upset by the killing of children in one situation but not the other, you need to have a serious think. This also applies to those who disregard Oct 7th (and they do exist - it's just that not every critic of the IDF/Netanyahu is the same as them).

….and your point is…….?

You won't get a reply. Because you are spot on.

Theres very many versions of democracy, i'll take your point as a given.

But you missed my point, Israel was brutally attacked by Hamas and in my book they should go after them, but not by bombing all palestinians.

When mosad hunted down and captured eichmann, it was a surgical cut. They didn't bomb Argentina to bits. Why haven't Israel done likewise with Hamas. They could fund the palestinian west bank govt and together route out hamas, working together to also out hamas from the gaza strip.

But israel is too busy demolishing buildings and building houses for Israeli settlers.

So you're essentially saying that the the Palestinians should not have self-government because some of their ways run contrary to western norms?

No I wouldn't tbh. My main reason for not wanting to live in Palestine is that many people living there are being murdered en masse by their neighbors, and I don't think I'd fare to well.

I think that women requiring men to travel abroad (if what you say is correct, I wouldnt know tbh) is bad, it is far lesser a worry than those same women being blown up, shot, or beaten by radicalized settlers, the politicians who are calling for their "purge", or an extremely well equipped army being allowed to commit war crimes with impunity.

Any thoughts on the government that are inflicting that, whilst you are here comparing the ills of both states?

You don't need to compare "protocols" with me thanks (I dont believe that poster was talking about Hamas either way, and nobody here is supporting Hamas or any other terrorist organization).

One side has inflicted approx 96% of casualties of his "war" on the other side, most of them have been civilian women and children, and you are sitting here trying to tell us they are the good guys, and the other side are bad, based on whatever utterly specific metrics you can cobble together to prove that.

Why bother?

Who do you think is making the lives of these women (that you clearly care so deeply about) worse at the present time, assuming they are one of the 10s of thousands that haven't been murdered - their government (warts and all), or Israel's?

Indeed it is very confusing. Like how can you be concerned about Palestinian women not being allowed to travel on their own and then back the hateful excuse for an army who are bombing and shooting them in Gaza?? Very strange posts on here at times. Being concerned for their freedom but not too concerned for them being murdered is entirely confusing.

This is so bizarre. I don't like how women are treated in the middle east, but how is that relevant.

Do you have any opinions on the human rights of the women who were the victims of ethnic cleansing in Palestine?

This is a direct quote from the former minister for justice in Israel, also a woman:

Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists. They are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists."

Neverminding the ethnic cleansing of Gazan women (which you will wave away as collateral damage I'm sure), any commentary on how Israel upholds the universal human rights for women, when her minister of justice no less, displays this rhetoric?

Ah, here's another one: jews are exceptional. God's chosen people, is it?

So it doesn't matter if they carry out a little bit of genocide here and there, because they are übermensch.

And still there are people who wonder why Israel and zionism are compared to Nazi Germany.

As for them ending up in government because of their being high achievers, the only jewish minister in Ireland in recent times was forced to resign for poor judgment, to put it diplomatically.

Interesting and illustrative response.

Quite a logic leap to what that poster said.

As a person from a Xtian background, I could expect to be spat at and hassled by a certain type of jew in Israel. Not quite in the same league as being shot in the heart or the head by an israeli sniper, or being murdered by having a US bomb dropped on me from an israeli plane, but still pretty unpleasant. And very unlikely to happen in a Palestinian community.

You are not allowed to question zionist figures.

However, wikipedia has a variety of numbers form Roma/Sinti, going from 150,000 to 1,500,000. If the latter, the proportion of jews would drop below 80%. And then millions of Soviet POWs were shot dead in cold blood, I've seen mention of 2.5 - 3 million of them, which is very much a holocaust on its own, and brings the proportion of jews murdered down to below 60%. If we consider the 20 million who died in the Soviet Union, this on its own would form around 75% of those killed by the Nazis.

I get no joy from any of these figures. I think all of those deaths are horrific, but there is no one group, religious or ethnic, that has a monopoly of the deaths although you would be forgiven if you believed different up until now. I do not want to downplay the number of jews who died, but they were one group among many.

I'd agree with that. Not sure how it's relevant to the war though.

Also a pity the worst of them seem to be leading the Israeli government and military.