Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Higgins is criticised in the editorial of today's edition of The Times (UK) for comparing the Holocaust to the war in Gaza.

Some outrageous errors here : Israel closed their embassy in Ireland, not Ireland (Irish Government wanted it kept open).

The IRA was a tiny illegal organisation in WW2, which regarded the Irish state as illegitimate. Most of its members were banged up in prison.

2 out of every 3 european jews and 60% of the entire world jewish population were killed. But yeah sure, it wasn't a genocide and could have been worse. Its telling that someone so keen to label the israel hamas war as an actual genocide can't even bring himself to say the same about the Holocaust.

It's a miserable little screed that's unreflective of anything at all.

It's funny though, the people who are "upset" with Higgins' speech the other day are big on their performative outrage, but very short on providing any actual quotes on what it was that upset them so.

Frankly, from what I've read of his speech, it would only be people who are, at best, of very dubious moral character and, at worst, disappointed that the slaughter has ended that would be upset at what Higgins has said.

A mirror is being held up to some people and they don't like what's being reflected back at them.

I wouldn't even be a big fan of Higgins, but his speech seemed moderate and restrained, calling for peace in the region and a two state solution. We've come to the point where virtually any implied criticism of the Israeli government and its actions in Gaza for the last 16 months is seen as a disgusting and reprehensible attack on Jewish people and a clear example of anti-Semitism.

It looks like '' the Chosen People '' don't like the truth being brought up. Shur didn't God tell them that the entire land was theirs thus the Palestinians have to be driven out.

Suspected war criminal welcomed warmly by Starmer's government.

Apparently declassified UK were the only ones to document his visit 😔. What's really striking is how security addresses the journalist while helping a suspected war criminal.

I wonder have the UK media always been this useless or is it just that I'm older now?

Jaysus @political analyst you'd want to sign up for a job on the Times, you (and many on here) would do a far better job pushing yer character assassination agenda than that poorly written, poorly researched, factually incorrect and utterly biased piece of garbage. So many facts wrong in there, I'm genuinely surprised that passed through an editor and was published.

If they are willing to tell those kinds of lies about us, imagine the lies being spun about the Palestinians.

Btw, I'm not trying to catch anyone out but am asking a genuine question about Zionismz and alot of people here seems to be knowledgeable about it. Is there a geographical size limit to Zionism? What size is the Jewish homeland? Does Zionism involve forever obtaining more land to increase its size, or is it (in theory) happy with defined borders?

This is genuinely what it says on Wikipedia - is this accurate??

Zionists wanted to create a Jewish state in Palestine with as much land, as many Jews, and as few Palestinian Arabs as possible.

If that is the case - is that homeland within the defined borders that currently exist? If not - and the quest is constantly for more land and less Arabs - why would anybody be "for that"? How is thinking that is not good, and no different to colonialism, be against the Jewish faith? I'm sure it is someone trolling but it's been up there for a few days.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

For a "Labour" PM, Starmer is incredibly right wing. You can actually tell he has no real connection to the party and its history or roots in it. It's as if a right wing Tory MP jumped ship and moved across the chamber. His support for Israel in that context should not come as a surprise.

Yes indeed, Blair's New Labour was already edging right of centre (and very much so in its support for Bush's disastrous invasion of Iraq). Starmer though is easily the most right wing Labour PM there has ever been - but as you suggest, the entire political spectrum in the UK seems to have gone that way since Brexit.

[sarcasm]Of course, you're so right[/sarcasm]

Of course you have to ignore the fact that Israel has conducted itself broadly as one would expect any belligerent to do in any all out war, and it was provoked in two of its most recent wars (7 Oct 2023 in Gaza and from the 8th of October 2023 onwards they were attacked constantly by Lebanon). Indeed, as I demonstrated in a video post recently, Israel's strategic posture is based on its horrifying geopolitics, not the other way around.

Meanwhile the much larger Nazi Germany started all of its wars totally unprovoked against countries and peoples who were not looking for a fight, and actually did things one would expect in an actual genocide, e.g. organising trainloads of people to be killed in Zyklon B "showers" in death camps.

But like you say, if you ignore all the differences between Israel and Nazi Germany, then you can fabricate a twisted worldview in which both are exactly the same 🙄 And you have clearly done so.

OMG. Words fail me. But if people are marching with banners - or alongside those doing so - of Hezbollah and signs with "Lets Go Bomb Tel-Aviv" I think we come to our conclusions about them, and probably about their cause.

So yes, if you ignore all the differences, you can imagine similarities. Glad we've cleared that up.

Of course none of the people claiming that there is a "genocide" in Gaza can explain how Israel's conduct has been different to any other belligerent in any other all-out war in history.

Great Post ol Donald, fair play .