Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

1…3132343637…71

Comments

  • #992
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123108471#Comment_123108471

    I'm not sure what unit of currency a pent is

    I think we should start a counter from how often Godwin's law gets broken on each page of this thread 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #993
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,730 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123108485#Comment_123108485

    And you accuse others of hypocrisy?

    This is what you said in reply to @DrPsychia

    "You mentioned before in this thread how VW is linked to Hitler, it's one of the reasons why you won't buy one."

    I've bought 2 ID4's since 2021. I'm currently pricing an ID3 GTX Performance.

    So when it suits you, you can say you did or didn't buy VWs. Pure sophistry.



  • #994
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123108668#Comment_123108668

    Kinda proves I don’t care who the CEO of a car company is. I’ve remained consistent with that approach, thankfully, that's obvious to anyone with a functioning cerebral cortex.



  • #995
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105697#Comment_123105697

    Let's not forget, Trump won the election and the popular vote. All those voters wanted Trump in power

    Look over at European elections, Orban, Le Pen, the Afd, even our own Aontú are all gaining momentum. It's all part of the same mentality



  • #996
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,730 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123108737#Comment_123108737

    Lol. Kinda proves you'll say anything to make a point, even if it's the opposite of what you said before. As I said, sophistry.

    And I note when it comes to CEOs, you're very quick with the whataboutery when someone criticises Musk. Apparently you care about one of them anyway.

    PS Imitation is the sincerest form of flatter. Thanks 👍️



  • Advertisement
  • #997
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,003 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Is Elon hurting Tesla - depends on how much of a Nazi you are.

    IMG_20250128_151753_929.jpg

    Projected onto the Tesla factory in Berlin.



  • #998
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123109822#Comment_123109822

    They say no publicity is bad publicity, but this has got to be the exception 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #999
    yagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭yagan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123109822#Comment_123109822

    New name for a Tesla is a Swasticar.



  • #1000
    sk8board
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭sk8board


    The good news is that we’ll get a clear answer to all our arguing with the 2025 deliveries - the first full year post all the musk antics. Who knows, maybe buyers don’t care, but I find it hard not to see European demand continuing to drop, like the 11% drop in 2024.

    As for Irelands part of that market, 2024 sales were down 14% on 2023, with marketshare down to 2%.



  • #1001
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123110767#Comment_123110767

    The tread was started in 2022 so hang around long enough and it’s bound to happen! The whole EV market dropped in 2024. It dropped from record highs in 2023 due to lack of supply in 2021 and 2022.

    The big brands dropped in 2024, so while it’s completely true that Tesla sales dropped by 13%, VW sales were down 37% on 2023, Hyundai sales were down 37% on 2023 also.

    We are seeing the sales spread over more brands and there’s no way the bigger brands can continue to eat up all EV sales with SK mich competition so I suspect the drops will continue for some but increase for others 2025.

    VW

    IMG_0568.jpeg

    Tesla

    IMG_0569.jpeg

    Hyundai

    IMG_0570.jpeg

    Some of those loses spilled over onto Polestsr who actually increased sales in 2024 compared to 2023 by one unit.

    IMG_0571.jpeg

    and also Mercedes who increased sales by nearly 3%

    IMG_0572.jpeg

    I’m sure there’s many more that dropped and many more that increased but you get my point.



  • Advertisement
  • #1002
    sk8board
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭sk8board


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123110813#Comment_123110813

    That’s just EVs though, and this isn’t an EV debate - it’s about car executives actions harming the sales of their companies.

    Tesla is an outlier for overall sales when viewed in the market overall. And their drop in sales outpaces the drop in EV sales too.

    I suppose the most generous way to put this whole debate is:

    All things being equal, if Tesla sales are underperforming the market, how much of that is down to Musks attempts to subvert democracies around the world and promote right wing ideology



  • #1003
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111127#Comment_123111127

    I can see where you are coming from and agree to that extent.

    But what context does the drop in 2024 give, especially when 99% of all EV brand sales dropped.

    You stated “Tesla is an outlier for overall sales when viewed in the market overall. And their drop in sales outpaces the drop in EV sales too.”

    Yet all other brands drops in sales outpaced Tesla’s. I suppose thats the point im trying to make.

    As we said in 2023 in this thread, this year will tell, same for 2024, and again for 2025.

    Will Tesla sales fall in line with the others or significantly drop?

    Post edited by Gumbo on


  • #1004
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    There's a few other variables in play as well, 2024 saw refreshes of Tesla's 2 main models so that usually causes a sales drop as people don't want the older model

    VW also did a major refresh which probably made the older models with junk software very undesirable

    Kia have been pushing out new models and updated the EV6

    So there's been a fair amount of churn in terms of mainline brands last year

    There's also the depreciation factor to consider. I think the past couple of years have demonstrated to buyers that PCP deals tend to fall apart on a technology that is generally going down in price

    Buyers no longer have that magic equity at the end of 3 years to buy a new car so will either sit on their current car, or trade back to something cheaper like ICE

    It's also worth considering how good a deal the current Tesla models are. I'm sure many people are quite happy to spend an extra euro down the shop to buy something fair-trade, or donate some money to charity every month

    Asking people to spend several several thousand extra, or buy something that is perceived as worse because the CEO is a prick is more of a stretch

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #1005
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111641#Comment_123111641

    One thing is sure, there will be a lot more competition in 2025, XPeng G6 for example. Available now in RWD for €44k on the road and you'll have the car by end of February if you get in on the first 50 orders.



  • #1006
    yagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭yagan


    I read that <mod:snip> sales are still positive in China but market share continues to decline as rivals deliver newer options. If I find the piece I'll link but interestingly in the Chinese market there's so many new options that the <mod:snip> offering is considered dated.

    Incidentally I saw a new merc this morning that I initially mistook for a byd seal, have they hooked up?



  • #1007
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Mod Note: Referring to Tesla vehicles as swasticars will be seen as trolling



  • #1008
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111679#Comment_123111679

    This one?

    "China sales rose 8.8% to a record high of more than 657,000 cars in 2024, a strong performance in a competitive market in a year when its annual global deliveries fell for the first time.Tesla's sales in the world's largest auto market also increased 12.8% in December from a month earlier to a record high of 83,000 units, according to Tesla China."

    https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-china-sales-rise-record-high-83000-december-2025-01-03/



  • #1009
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111679#Comment_123111679

    Different buying priorities as well, Chinese buyers are more focused on the digital experience rather than driving dynamics or charging speed

    German brands quite famously got this wrong, it doesn't matter how well your VW or BMW goes around corners when you're stuck in traffic all day

    Tesla offered a good balance of tech and driving initially, but local rivals have caught up on the former and are continuing to improve on the latter

    It's likely that some nationalism is playing into this as well. It's probably not helping Tesla a lot that Musk has closely associated himself with someone who regularly threatens China with tarriffs and sanctions. In general there seems to be a strong push towards native brands in China as well

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #1010
    yagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭yagan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111704#Comment_123111704

    It wasn't a business news outlet but a motoring website. I'd imagine the business source is probably closer to the truth.



  • #1011
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111772#Comment_123111772

    They'd all pull from the same data source IMO.

    But some sites can twist or blatantly misinterpret the data and make a mess of it.



  • Advertisement
  • #1012
    yagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭yagan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111751#Comment_123111751

    I think the only retaliation China imposed was a restriction of teslas being allowed in military areas.

    Ultimately Trump can bash China but China will make same amount from each domestic and foreign owned car coming out of Chinese factories. It's the same with phones.

    Trump like protections only confirm you're already ahead.



  • #1013
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,730 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111751#Comment_123111751

    It's probably not helping Tesla a lot that Musk has closely associated himself with someone who regularly threatens China with tarriffs and sanctions. In general there seems to be a strong push towards native brands in China as well

    It's kind of ironic that Tesla are taking legal action against the EU because of the 10% tariff on Chinese made cars.



  • #1014
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111798#Comment_123111798

    Most, if not all of the brands are, including Polestar, BMW & BYD. Its a business move and would also happen outside of the car industry.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3296025/chinese-car-giants-byd-geely-and-saic-sue-european-commission-over-ev-tariffs



  • #1015
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111798#Comment_123111798

    Of course, big companies always have a selective view of rules and regulations

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #1016
    yagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭yagan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123111783#Comment_123111783

    As someone else mentioned there was supposedly a million orders placed on the Cybertruck.



  • #1017
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123112339#Comment_123112339

    I don't think that was a serious comment 😬



  • #1018
    sk8board
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭sk8board


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123112339#Comment_123112339

    in the 2023 financials, they listed deposits for 1.9m trucks on their balance sheet, but exhausted that list in just 47,000 sales, albeit we don’t know how many international market orders were cancelled as it won’t ever be delivered.

    Incidentally, the 2024 financial results and 2025 forecasts are out tonight. it’s always interesting reading.
    Musk is saying 20-30% growth in deliveries this year, with analyst consensus of 16%, which is still decent growth I would argue, coming off a negative growth year



  • #1019
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123112643#Comment_123112643

    Was that physical orders or just the $100 reservation fee to allow you to order?

    I'd say every tom dick and harry paid the 100 as it was fully refundable of course and then just never progressed to an actual order.

    Currently, i think you can order and collect immediately in the states, would that be correct?



  • #1020
    sk8board
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭sk8board


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123112666#Comment_123112666

    correct on both counts yep - it was 1.9m * $100; And yes you can get a CT with effective-zero wait time



  • Advertisement
  • #1021
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,359 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123112339#Comment_123112339

    I said a billion , for the giggles.

    But yes it was well over a million.

    I see above 1.9 mill down to 47k orders is extraordinary drop show casing how abysmal the thing was really received all things considered. Obviously not all deposits translate to sales. But the deposit sit to sale ratio there of 2.4 percent is industry poor.



Advertisement