Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104973#Comment_123104973

I would say he had two major fan bases years ago, the world saving environmentalists and the tech bros looking for the next big thing

The first group almost certainly hate him at this point, the second group love him because he can tell the US department of education to replace all textbooks with Grok

sk8board

Tesla would thrive without musk, the product is too strong in the market, but bear in mind that if you don’t want to be directly supporting musk then he’d need to not be a shareholder - and his control of the Board and shares make that virtually impossible.

“Sure they’re all the same” isn’t an argument in this case, comparing to BYD, VW etc. They’re not remotely the same.

this CEO paid $150m to elect the most powerful office on the planet and then installed himself as ‘first buddy’. The power that his wealth has enabled is simply astonishing, to be the most heard person on earth, involving himself in destabilising the worlds leading democracies - and the vast proportion of that wealth comes from people buying his cars.

It’s a pretty simple argument really.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105073#Comment_123105073

Hasn't the US recently banned pretty much all Chinese car brands even if they're manufactured in the US?

Basically anything that can potentially transfer data to China isn't allowed

That's going to cut out a chunk of the competition

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105150#Comment_123105150

Chinese companies don't seem to need the US market. Also Toyota is now getting BYD to produce their EV powertrains, so essentially Chinese companies can still have a US presence via Japanese brands that once also suffered tariffs when US brands didn't want competition.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123103685#Comment_123103685

Where exactly is the line though? He's out on twitter supporting legit neo-Nazis and maybe/maybe not doing Nazi salutes himself….

I work in tech with lots of my dept based in the UK, and anecdotally I know several people who are are interested in moving to an EV and have written off Tesla because of Musk's recent UK actions.

I don't really see how he helps them at all in recent years, between his non-Tesla antics, and the mess of Cybertruck, Roadster and probably the Robotaxi. All he does is hinder, and I firmly believe that Tesla would be doing better and have even higher sales if he was binned and a no-name CEO took over.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105073#Comment_123105073

I posted the same a while back. Tesla are just another EV, same as every other one at the moment. Some are better, some are worse and there's pros and cons to each. Its strange that they get so much attention but that's the price for an outspoken CEO I guess.

If they keep driving down the price of the competition to where they should be then that's a good day in my book, and lets be honest, would the legacies of even been here if they didn't kick start the EV race and would they have reduced their mental prices if Tesla didn't reduce theirs's first.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105138#Comment_123105138

Is it ok that Hyundai also donated $1m to Trump?

Toyota also donated $1m.

Ford and GM also donated…..

Amazon donated, Facebook donated….

It seems that many people hate Musk and Tesla. That's fine but, but there's only so many times the same posts from the same posters can be repeated, it would seem a lot of people will have to boycott a lot of companies if they are being truthful with themselves or just posting lies.

Outside of the US, BMW actively donate to Angela Merkel's Party,

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105189#Comment_123105189

I have no idea where the line is, but I guarantee you there is one and I'd be very surprised if he didn't eventually cross it the way he's going. He may have already crossed the line and the market is just taking some time to react.

I also know anecdotally plenty of people in the market for EVs and won't go near Tesla because of Musk. But for all those people we know there's plenty of people who actually agree with what Musk says and does and will buy a Tesla because of that. Anybody I know who is still committed to the brand then doesn't care who the CEO is

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105277#Comment_123105277

And theres a 3rd cohert, those that dont care opr follow what musk or any other CEO does. They buy the car based on the spec of the car, value and what suits their needs, irrespective of the brand.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105282#Comment_123105282

Group 1: Were once going to buy a Tesla but now won't because of what Musk says

Group 2: Weren't going to buy a Tesla but now will because of what Musk says

Group 3: Don't care what the CEO says, wants the car

Assuming Tesla will sell the same number of cars to Group 3 and fewer to Group 1 Tesla would need the number of people in Group 2 to increase or else sales will fall.

Scenario 1: Group 1 is bigger than Group 2. Sales fall, share price takes a hit, shareholders take a hit, shareholders want him gone

Scenario 2: Group 2 is bigger than Group 1. Sales rise, share price rises, Musk stays as CEO and his gamble has paid off

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105282#Comment_123105282

I'd have a deep reservation about buying an EV from a megalomanic in case in the future he might decide to send out crap software to users in countries he doesn't like. Remember the yes/no "reply to my new terms" within 24hrs that he sent to Twitter staff after he took over?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105321#Comment_123105321

Group 4: They Say they Were once going to buy a Tesla but now won't because of what Musk says. But in reality, never were in the market for a tesla.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105327#Comment_123105327

I wouldn't be as dramatic as that myself. his worse software is probably still better than the UI on my ID4!

Anyway, lots of what ifs and buts going around.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105330#Comment_123105330

I'm discounting anybody who was never in the market for a Tesla in my scenarios

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105249#Comment_123105249

Just checking to see what positions in the US government Hyundai, Ford, GM and Toyota have taken up. We all know Zuck isn't getting a look in.

Anyway bear with me as I check…

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105189#Comment_123105189

I think this is critical, the CEOs job is pretty clear in any company; grow the business

Lately under Musk, I don't see anything that's growing Tesla as a business. As @Gumbo mentioned, people are buying Teslas because they like them as cars, not because of who the CEO is

So I think it's fair to say that those sales would have happened without Elon

The question then is does he have some grand strategy to increase revenue? Obviously no-one here is privy to Tesla internal strategy, but I'm not seeing anything announced that screams game changer

The model refreshes were just that, keeps the current models up to pace with the market. The CT is vehicular marmite, people will buy one if they want it or won't buy it

Model 2 cancelled, the Robotaxi is presumably the next big bet when he forces NHTSA to make it road legal

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105401#Comment_123105401

Robotaxi is presumably the next big bet when he forces NHTSA to make it road legal

This would be a very good bet I think. Can't wait for the carnage. 😂

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105401#Comment_123105401

There will always be a baseline market that is either ignorant of his behaviour or just don't care. The problem comes from losing market share to competitors as a result of being associated with Musk, which doesn't adhere to the idea of growing the business.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105249#Comment_123105249

they’re two completely different things - it’s an American tradition that companies contribute exactly $1m to the inauguration ceremony for the new president, irrespective of your political slant. Traditionally the tech companies didn’t contribute to any, most are too new.

American has always done its political donations/collusion in public view - we wouldn’t allow it here at all, it’s somewhere between corruption and collusion.

e.g the ambassadors that the president will appoint come from a table of donators - the more you donated, the better ambassadorship you’ll get - it’s all done in public, but to us it would stink.

sk8board

the wealthiest man in the world, controlling the most powerful man in the world, must be intoxicating - definitely worth a tonne of lost car sales

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105481#Comment_123105481

I wonder how long that will go on? Two mercurial narcissists in the same dog box. Be surprised if it lasts a year.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105277#Comment_123105277

Don't think there's really much of a market for people who agree with Musk and want an EV, in Ireland/UK/Europe tbh, and certainly not people who are going to be running out to buy one because of what he says.

In the US, sure, as many people basically identify themselves on a binary Dem/Republican level and Musk is firmly aligned with Republicans.

On this side of the pond, not so much.

I'd be confident that the amount of people in Ireland/UK/Europe who are turned off Tesla because of his antics, firmly outnumber those who are motivated to buy one because of his antics.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105697#Comment_123105697

+1

They will either like the car or not over here.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105249#Comment_123105249

Your argument is a jumble of deflection and false equivalence. Let’s be crystal clear: Musk isn’t just another CEO writing a cheque to a PAC. He’s the richest man in the world, funnelling $250 million into far-right extremism, AKA Trump, in the US, also funding the neo-fascist AfD, and planning to fund Nigel Farage’s Reform UK with £150 million. This isn’t mere “donating”, it’s an explicit campaign to sabotage democracy. He’s even brazenly meddling in Irish and British politics, openly attempting to undermine Keir Starmer while cozying up to authoritarian apologists and dictators. Comparing this to Hyundai or Toyota’s bland corporate donations is like equating a firework to a grenade. One makes noise; the other destroys institutions.

“but BMW donated to Merkel”, utter nonsense. Does BMW’s CEO own and use one of the world's largest social media platforms to amplify neo-Nazis, attempt to overthrow elected leaders of democracies, and normalise authoritarianism? Does Ford’s CEO spend his time platforming bigots, attacking marginalised groups, and masquerading as a free-speech absolutist hero while silencing dissent and those who don't agree with him? No. Musk isn’t just writing cheques - he’s building a global propaganda empire with Tesla profits, turning Twitter/X into a cesspool of hate speech and disinformation while gaslighting the public as a “champion of free speech.”

Ethical consumption under capitalism is messy, but refusing to fund a man actively attempting to sabotaging democracy - from funding Germany’s far-right to propping up anti-immigrant extremists in the UK - isn’t hypocrisy. It’s self-preservation.

Let’s stop pretending this is about “hating Tesla” or "hating Elon". People not furious about electric cars - they’re furious that every Tesla sale enriches a man weaponising his wealth to erode civil rights, undermine climate action, and legitimise authoritarianism. Defending him by whining “But Ford donated too!” is a terriblly naive argument.

This isn’t whataboutery. It’s a demand to stop normalising the actions of a megalomaniac whose power, funded in part by car sales, government subsidies etc, which threatens democracy itself.

If you can’t distinguish between Musk’s destructive influence, that is, his cash injections into far-right movements, his attacks on elected leaders, his social media radicalisation machine - and generic corporate donations, you’re either drowning in delusional denial, waving a flag for fascism, or openly flaunting your complicity. Either way, passivity is poison. Cut. the. act.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105870#Comment_123105870

TLDR

Another rant without reading the thread. I’m pretty sure all of the whataboutery is from other posters. So the mind boggles why you direct that at me. maybe you should read the thread.

And finally, Nobody has a noose around your neck to buy a Tesla. Buy something else. They don’t have a monopoly on cars.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105934#Comment_123105934

If you won't attempt to read and momentarily digest a mere 300 words, well then it's a damning reflection of what you're all about. Deflection, denial, whataboutery.

Your frequent mentions of Volkswagen’s emissions scandal and it's Hitler-era links isn’t the “gotcha” you think it is - it’s a confession of your own hypocrisy.

You mentioned before in this thread how VW is linked to Hitler, it's one of the reasons why you won't buy one. You even called people hypocrites because they would to buy a VW, knowing it's past. Well now since Der Führer Musk has associated himself with literal neo-Nazi's, has done the Nazi salute, twice, an act viewed by millions, are you going to stop buying Tesla's now?

VW paid ~€31 billion in fines, pivoted to EVs, and at least pretends to care about accountability. Meanwhile, Der Führer Musk is publicly, knowingly, using a Nazi salute, platforming white supremacists, and using his wealth to undermine democracy today. The difference? VW’s sins are decades-old corporate greed; Musk’s are current, personal, and ideological. You don’t get to clutch pearls about Hitler’s ghost while defending a man who literally does Nazi salutes on stage and funds extremists.

Honestly, I need to give you some credit, your posts are a masterclass in bad-faith arguing. You're good at spinning Musk/Tesla criticisms to suit your agenda, against those who don't have much experience at debating. 

You're not here to discuss, you’re here to win and deflect, even if it means ignoring reality. You seem to be more interested in defending Musk than addressing the points people rightly raise about him as an individual, and CEO. Brands carry weight. CEOs matter. When Musk uses his platform to amplify bigots and undermine democracy, that reflects on the brand.

This isn’t about policy debates - it’s about supporting a man who funds extremism. Musk isn’t being criticised for generic corporate greed. He’s actively attacking democratic institutions, platforming hate, and meddling in elections. Equating that to other brands labor disputes like you did previously in the thread is like comparing apples to oranges.  But sure, keep pretending his actions are relatively harmless.

You're right about one thing though: evolution happens. And right now, Tesla is evolving into a brand that's increasingly associated with a dangerous, unstable, and frankly, odious figure. However, evolution also involves a path to extinction for species that fail to adapt. I believe Tesla will become a cautionary tale of a company shackled to a leader who prioritises "owning the libs" over owning the EV market. Until Tesla’s board grows a spine(they won't because it's filled with his pawns) - or regulators intervene - the company will lose potential and current customers.

The road to irrelevance is paved with denial.

argentum

Wouldn't buy a Tesla because its a crap car not because of who owns the company

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123108288#Comment_123108288

"You mentioned before in this thread how VW is linked to Hitler, it's one of the reasons why you won't buy one."

I've bought 2 ID4's since 2021. I'm currently pricing an ID3 GTX Performance.

Where did you read that I wouldn't buy one?

I've never once defended Musk. My posts merely highlight the hypocrisy of people not buying one car because of its CEO while they strut out to their VW, Polestar, BYD or Merc etc

It wont affect me, I buy based on the car or financial costs, I also have an eNiro which is getting retired this week and also had an MG5 that was retired last year. I don't look at the CEO when buying a car and when a particular car stops making me happy, I'll move on. Its as simple as that and many people get angry at that. Evident by the same posts by the same people repeating what was said last year yet no difference.

2025 will be interesting for Tesla that's for sure.

At the end of the day, I have my opinions about buying a car and not caring about the CEO, and you have your opinions of checking the CEO before buying. That's fine and I respect your opinion, doesn't mean i have to agree with it.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510695#Comment_121510695

I wouldn’t give VW a pent of my own money.

Which is true? You bought ID4s or you didn't?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123108471#Comment_123108471

I’ve posted a lot about it. Business purchases for taxis. Not personal.

And you’ll see from the posts below that , that my stance hasn’t changed. It’s the hypocrisy around the statements.