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Interesting Maps

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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,838 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    image.png

    ..



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,103 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    *oPPress/ing/ed/or etc but yeah, they're not wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭minggatu


    Trento, Italy, early 20th century.

    GiKZxLbXoAAWdc_.jpg

    https://x.com/vintagemapstore/status/1883236674185859472/photo/1



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭minggatu


    Fertility rate in Europe (2024)

    GiMGsYkXQAAocxJ.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,143 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    ^ Your average white man will be extinct in how many years?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,476 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    there’s always one who can’t even enjoy a simple map thread…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭minggatu


    Map of Europe if the size of the countries were to be their GDP (and if every country were to be a square). Source: http://buff.ly/3qBU9mA

    GiKulPaWcAAlDqb.jpg


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Meh - the maps and their implications and meanings have been discussed throughout the thread. Why not now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭minggatu


    Map Of The Largest Towns And Cities Of England In 1377More about them: https://brilliantmaps.com/england-in-137

    GiPAj_EWwAAzKzB.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭minggatu


    Britain and Ireland (Britannia & Hibernia) in 211 CEFull map: https://brilliantmaps.com/roman-

    GiLyj_2XcAAADYE.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,549 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,392 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭DC999


    That confuses me. My parents, me and my wife and our kids are all still alive. So 3 generations.

    When my kids were born, we (the parents) didn't just die. So we now have 4 in our family (2 adults and 2 kids). And I aim to live for 30 to 40 years of their lives.

    I don't get how the population is declining as we are living longer with the other generations. What am I missing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,476 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    population isn’t declining. The map above is about “replacement rates”.

    As a population gets older (as you point out, people are living longer), society needs more workers to pay tax/social insurance to pay for the care/pensions of this growing elderly population

    And while the fertility rate is one factor, it’s not the only one involved in the “replacement” rate (and any sudden upsurge in that figure won’t take effect for 20 years)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭pad406


    For the population to start to decline will take another 50 years or so. Despite us living longer, if the fertility rate is lower than 2.1 (the .1 is to allow for infant mortality, which could probably be decreased these days), eventually you stop replacing the population that is dying off. (just checked, the UN expects the population to peak in 2085)

    The, much bigger problem though, is the economic impact. Because we're living longer and because the younger cohort is becoming relatively smaller, you have a much smaller working pool to support the much bigger non-working pool.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,700 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    1. This metric ignores deaths. It merely counts how many children a typical women has.
    2. The metric doesn't measure the increase or decrease in population. However, if the trend continues over a period of decades, then there will be a population decline.
    3. Populations are declining in some countries like Japan, Germany and Italy. This is because more (old) people are dying that there are people being born.
    4. In Ireland, the population is growing strongly. Part of this is immigration, but part of it is the number of babies born. Importantly, the birth rate is quite cyclical in Ireland and we are at the low part of the cycle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,647 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Africa is where the population growth is going to take off. It has 3 times the land area of Europe, so plenty of space there.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/272789/world-population-by-continent/



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Yeah, there's also the fact that in Ireland anyway, there was a baby boom in the late 70s and 80s, so more people having fewer kids will balance out.

    But those things won't go on forever.

    The economic aspect is another thing of course - the pension age really needs to go to 70 pretty much immediately (where it was until not that long ago) for example. But people are too selfish to acknowledge that.

    Another impact is that to replace the population with long-distance immigration is very carbon heavy. It encourages far more regular long-distance flights to visit relatives (think Indians living in Ireland, or indeed Irish living in Australia) - current carbon targets are that we should reduce to 5 tonnes per person by 2030, but those return flights generate that much and more on their own. The definition of unsustainable.

    But ultimately the map does indicate that what the head of NASA described in an interview in 1969 as "that great breadth of diversity that is Europe's gift to the world" is very much in danger of dying out. And it would be a particularly ignorant person who would argue that isn't a great pity.

    We should welcome population decline; the earth is overpopulated and a society built around (more gradual) population decline would be good. But again, we're too selfish to accept the economic implications of that.

    (See how useful a discussion can arise when the topic isn't suppressed as some would like?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Charts that have a scale that doesn't start at zero should be destroyed



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Ireland has not hit a fertility rate of 2.1 since 1991, it is consistently declining. What keeps our population up is new immigration and returning immigrants.

    The rate of returning immigrants is dying out as the huge wave of those who left in the 50's and 60's are now either back here, or have passed away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    in case someones sensibilities are triggered…

    247469249_2017413731748359_7675802031635703098_n.jpg

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,647 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    The rate of returning Irish has been pretty stable. 27K 2002, the highest in any year going back to 1987. 20K 2011 Census, 28K 2016 Census, 30K CSO figure y/e 30 April 2024.

    • There were 149,200 immigrants which was a 17-year high. This was the third successive 12-month period where over 100,000 people immigrated to Ireland. 
    • Of those immigrants, 30,000 were returning Irish citizens, 27,000 were other EU citizens, and 5,400 were UK citizens. The remaining 86,800 immigrants were citizens of other countries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭yagan


    Another factor is labour shortages for critical infrastructure and services.

    The next phase in the immigration dynamic will be a switch from a knee jerk rejection to outright competition for young immigrants.

    This is a McKinsey report about the challenges of coming demographic changes.

    https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/our-research/dependency-and-depopulation-confronting-the-consequences-of-a-new-demographic-reality#/

    Post edited by yagan on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭Thud


    As parts of Africa and other areas become unlivable due to climate change you will see a migration of people to more temperate climates which may offset some of the decline...but will also cause a many other problems.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’m an above average white man. So I’ll be grand.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    To expand on that - immigration is often looked on as a victimless crime when of course it isn't. Other developing countries are going to have huge brain drain issues, both skilled labour and cheap labour, just so the rich can stay rich. Very similar to the map at the top of this page - we'll be Rich Because Oppressing Others. I think Simon Reeve had a stat that 85% of college graduates in Jamaica up and leave for example, mostly to the US, but some to Britain. (There's similar stats elsewhere in the developing world - and we know from our own history what brain drain does to a country)

    That solves the labour shortages you describe - but makes it really hard for Jamaica to develop its economy. Not that we care about that, of course.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    ”immigration is often looked on as a victimless crime when of course it isn't.”


    it isn’t a crime at all ffs

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭yagan


    Well half the lads in my leaving cert year in the 80s are still abroad. I think around 1990 nearly half of the Irish population was 25 years of age and under with double digit unemployment. I emigrated too but came back, a lot of Poles I used to work with on building the motorways have gone back to Poland too as things improved there.

    A poor African country with a high birth rate can have as high a dependency rate as Japan, the former having a lot of under working age and the latter having too many over working age.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Major Nazi camps in Europe, January 1944

    17380017074484604308465036181107.gif

    [source]



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