Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

From Rachel Cory to Operation Cast Lead and Operation Protective Edge (where do they get the names?), Israel lost the Jewish youth of America. They still have much support among older jews, but less and less as time goes on. Part of the fallout from the past year is that whileIsrael might not have lost all support, it will become less vocal, and will be of less use: prople will think twice before handing over money, before approaching their local politician, before joining zionist organisations. Younger people will influence their parents, who in many cases may already have doubts about supporting the cause.

IMO, although Israel seems to be impregnable, we have already passed "peak Israel". It will be downhill from here on in.

No to mention Netanyahu encouraging genocide.

Why would anyone be antisemitic? You make it sound as though it is a naturally occuring product of nature in some places.

What doesn't add up is why Irish people have got so involved in this, a war in another part of the world that has nothing to do with us.

Whether you accept it or not, over the duration of this war Ireland has garnered the reputation of being the most Pro Palastinian country in Europe, and also the most antisemitic. Why?

We have had historically almost zero Palestinian population. Why all this fake bullcrap that we're somehow joined at the hip?

Why are Irish people, en masse, posting 'F**K Israel', 'F**k the Zionists'. It makes absolutely no sense.

It's not because of some abhorrance to death and famine. If that were the case, where are the marches for Sudan, or Ukraine?

What's irrational is antisemitism, and Ireland's irrational obsession with Palestine looks like the manifestation of Irish antisemitism to a considerable amount of people, not just the Israeli's.

You'll probably answer this post with 'Colonialism' but that doesn't wash either.

Sadly, recent survey suggests opposite

Maybe it's because a lot of Irish travel that they're familiar with Israeli's and don't think of all of them as saints. Hopefully, the US will stop funding genocide.

Which one? The one in WWII or the one over the past 15 months or so?

Extermination is a strong word for sure, it does remind people of the Holocaust.

Now here's the UN using the same language…. Extermination.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/10/un-commission-finds-war-crimes-and-crimes-against-humanity-israeli-attacks

Israel has perpetrated a concerted policy to destroy Gaza’s healthcare system as part of a broader assault on Gaza, committing war crimes and the crime against humanity of extermination with relentless and deliberate attacks on medical personnel and facilities

There's no doubt what's happening in Gaza amounts to a holocaust: destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war."a nuclear holocaust"

Why don't you just say it out loud? You can't understand why Irish people empathise with the Palestinians simply because you don't care about them yourself.

Do you consider them to be people?

Given you brought up Ukraine, do you think it purely Russophobic for an Irish person to have sympathy or empathy for the kids who were bombed by the Russians in the theatre in Mariupol? There were not many Ukraininans here at that time. Ireland is not involved in that conflict. The distance from Ireland to Mariupol is 3150 km whereas the distance from Ireland to Gaza is not a whole lot more at 4000 Km. It could only have been Russophobic - right?

Selective memory there. A bit convenient

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0224/1434197-ukraine-march/

Remember the man who rammed the gates of the Russian Embassy with a truck

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/case-of-truck-driver-who-rammed-russian-embassy-gates-adjourned-1.4862399

Coincidentally enough, the Russians tried to claim it was the media promoting "rabid anti-Russian propaganda" that got the man off. Sound familiar?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/russian-embassy-attacks-rabid-propaganda-after-jury-acquits-man-who-drove-into-its-gates/a1203423512.html

Did you develop a sudden connection or interest in the Rohingya back then too?

Did you figure out yet why you seem to have your own special interest in the WWII Holocaust but no mention of other groups killed in that conflict, or since? Including the 8+ million Chinese civilians mentioned above? Does that invalidate your claimed principles on the matter? Or might you conclude that it is perfectly possible to have a legitimate opinion and stance on something even if you did not protest equally as vociferously about everything else that happened in history?

So let me get this correct….

A march in support of Ukraine is a march in support of Ukraine (it's not anti-Russia or Russiaphopia)
But a march in support of Palestine is in your eyes… an Anti-Israel march, which (again in your eyes) is anti-Semitic?

Are we back to throwing out the anti-Semitic card when someone shows support for Palestine or takes an anti Israel stance?
Can people please educate themselves on definitions ffs, it's getting tedious now.

I think various international experts have said Israel is guilty of genocide I don't see how it s possible to kill 1000s of civilians and medical workers and journalists and say oh it was an accident it was stray bombs or maybe they were to close to Hamas soldiers .I can think of no logical argument against the charge of deliberate genocide .most of the builds in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed .

At least Trump has all but confirmed genocide is, and really always has been, the the end goal

President Donald Trump has indicated that he would like to see Jordan, Egypt and other Arab nations increase the number of Palestinian refugees they are accepting from the Gaza Strip.

Speaking to reporters on Air Force One yesterday, Trump, an ally of Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said: “You’re talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing and say, ‘You know, it’s over.’”

I agree 100%. Israel does not represent Jewishness, and not all Jews are loyal to Israel, Zionism, or the brutality of this war. Their opinions are as wide and varied as any other member of the human race, as are their behaviours and loyalties.

On the flipside, that is why legitimate criticism of Israel, a country, shouldn't be conflated with anti semitism, which is an attack on Jewishness.

As you say yourself, Israel does not represent Jewishness, it is undoubtedly a part of Jewishness, or home to a lot of Jewish people, but there are many many opposing and different beliefs, I would be surprised if there were any tennets in Judaism to support what the Israeli government and army are doing..

Israel is a state which labels itself as a liberal democracy, whose leaders are wanted by the ICC for crimes against humanity, and under serious investigation by the ICJ for the crime of genocide.

This in itself, for a liberal democracy, is abhorrent, yet they seem to be getting a free pass that no other western democracy would receive. When israel it is criticized for not acting as a liberal democracy should, it labels those doing it as antisemetic, despite this never in any way being an attack on Jewishness as Israels behaviour is not representative of Jewishness.

It's completely bizarre, and totally inconsistent.

Btw, labeling Jewish people as a hive mind is antisemetic, I agree, an awful form of racism.
Similarly, labelling those in Palestine as a hive mind for supporting Hamas (thus making civilians legitimate targets), is also highly racist and discriminatory, would you agree? These are opinions held and made public by people in the highest office in Israeli government.

I mean this is right up Donald’s street isn’t it- property development and speculation that could make him and his companies billions of dollars - if it weren’t for those pesky Palestinians.

I don’t support the terrorism dished out by Hamas etc but this is just terrifying what he’s proposing - once Palestinians leave Gaza there’s no return for them- I reckon Trump wants to make a Vegas out of the place-a playground for the rich.

My question is, money will undoubtedly pour in if Palestinians are shipped out to Egypt etc - but if they don’t go, who will fund the rebuild of Gaza?

The complexities of toxic waste disposal, underground streams likely polluted for decades to come - underground bunkers destabilising foundations - and where will they put all the rubble from the site clearance?
It a mammoth task without the complications of politics and people but it looks impossible with them

No. I get your point. You are an Israeli apologist who excuses their war crimes. Even if I accepted what you said is true- which I don't- it doesn't excuse Israel. The only reason you bring up the perceived hypocrisy of others is to defend Israel . I can't speak for others but I have a problem with terrorism and war crimes whether it's state or non state actors involved. If I started a thread on the Sudanese conflict it would get very few replies because I doubt there is anyone here trying to defend Sudanese war criminals, so hence the lack of debate.

It doesn't mean people don't care about what's going on there-no more than all the attention the Ukraine war has gotten in the last three years- you wouldn't make that criticism of people condemning Russia though

Also to suggest all jews have a hive mind is anti semtism, there are plenty of Jews around the world and in Ireland who do not agree with the actions of Israel. I have no doubt there is some anti semitic people in Ireland( just as there are a minority of far right supporters in this country), but again it suits you to conflate any criticism of Israel as anti semitism to shield Israel from legitimate criticism. You of course wouldn't accuse Irish people criticising the Russian invasion of Ukraine of being Russian phobes. The Russian ambassador did try to suggest we had an irrational hatred of Russians because we criticised the Ukraine war and supported sanctions against Russia. Was he right sheepysheep? According to your argument he was, we were clearly condemning the Russian invasion and only focused on Russia because of our hatred of Russia. It couldn't possibly be because the majority of Irish people are against occupiers and war criminals whether they are Russian or Israeli.

Article from today

The report, which carries a foreword by Sergey Vershinin, Russia’s deputy foreign minister, went on to claim that Russian nationals in Ireland had faced increasing hostility since the invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.
“Many Russian-speaking people, including Russian nationals, have faced harassment at work, at school and in public organisations. This was largely provoked by an artificially fuelled Russophobic campaign in Irish media.”
The report alleged that Russian community organisations in Ireland had petitioned authorities to protect Russian-speaking pupils and students who had experienced bullying or discrimination in schools, although the truth of this allegation has yet to be determined.

Exact same playbook.

Source below:

https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/russia-plays-victim-as-it-protests-over-irish-role-in-sanctions-29svkhkc7