Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

The quickest way to stabilise the side is to revert to a counter attacking style. It will get the best out of our most dangerous players - Rashford, Garnacho and Fernandes. But it'll screw us in the long term. I'm happy we have a manager that finally has the balls to say we're not going down that route because we'll end up back at square one after a false dawn.

I think ideally we could get two players minimum this window to freshen things up a bit and have at least one wingback that suits his system. It's tough with PSR but it's why we're considering selling Garnacho. I think we will go through many more inconsistent results between now and the end of the season. Then there will be significant ins and outs, and we can begin to judge RA next season.

Strange that we should have won a number of Amorims games by 2 or 3 goals. Yet we seem to just about edge it by one goal.

You’re wasting time with a poster who doesn’t understand how ETH team might perform a little better with ETH players that he bought to suit ETH style of play and had worked with for more than two years than a coach who is forced to work with those same players that don’t suit his style of play one little bit and has only been working with for a number of weeks.

I mean it’s not rocket science.

But what if only a hnadful pf the players can play that system - or that the version you can implement is miles away from the end goal?

Is there a point at which you can say we are paying poorly cause we can't implement the system and without 2 or 3 key signins we are not able to implement the system - so stop trying until we can do something that approaches the end goal?

If we reverted to something more familiar for the next couple of months - how does that really damage next season? Would that not suggest that if we had kept EtH and hired Amorim on June 1st that we couldn't expect Amorim to implement a style next season?

I think Amorim has answered this question enough times at this stage so let’s give him a chance to see if it succeeds or not.

Absolutely discuss away.I’m happy with what our manager is trying to implement, anyone who isn’t is entitled to that opinion.

I think if we did that it would reinforce the feeling that it can't be done and would be a win of sorts for the players like they had getting Ole in, ETH to backtrack.

It would be just the wrong message to send to the players imo

I think he does need to build their confidence a bit though (how, I'm not so sure, but it was something I thought he would be skilled at), it's not all just an aptitude and application issue, it's also a confidence issue.

There's plenty of guys in the squad who can play and follow instructions, I think to row back now would set us back again. What if we did move to something more comfortable, start winning a load of matches, everyone and the press starts saying we've sorted it out, back playing Man Utd football etc. Then he tries again next season, we have a few bad results, press, fans and players start saying we're better off playing how we did at the end of the season and the cycle just repeats and repeats. It would be a carbon copy of ETH's error imo.

I think saying they don't have the money is reductive and incorrect. INEOS are not some paupers. They ahve paid over 1.5billion to to be here and put in another 300m directly. 1.8billion - is your view that 1.8billion was their max fund for United and now they are tapped out and couldn't afford to do more? Given they had offered more than that amount to buy out the glazers completely how do you square that?

I agree they could just pay off the debt to release 50m a year and I'd love to see them do it. They COULD do it, nothing stopping them. But I don't think the reason they are not doing it simply cause they can't afford it. I think it is because (in the biggest part) they don't own the club and paying off the debt directly increases the enterprise value of the club - so they would be making the club more expensive to buy by the same amount. I understand you can not like that reasoning, I don't like it myself, but i do think it is more complicated than 'can't afford to'.

They could do naming right for OT. Yep. Don't think they will cause the fans would riot.
I think they will 100% sell the naming rights to a new build, and it would be insanity if they do not.

I think they could and should either sponsor Carrington themslves or look for 3rd party title sponsor. thats about 20m being left on the table. It seeems like such an obvious move I have to belive there is a reason it hasn't happened.

In general temrs I am surprised and disappointed that INEOS have only been able to enact spending cuts (which are needed, imo) and have shown no evidence of increasing/generating revenues for the club other than selling players.

If you more so ment the glazers, the ones who own 70% of the club, i would agree they don't have the money, nor the inclination or ambition to put money in.

But what is he going to learn in the next few moths that he hasn't been able to learn in the last 2.5 months?

What more is he going to learn about Martinz, Amad, De Ligt? Genuinely?

IMO the biggest issuee we have is not having the correct profiles in key positions - and that miss impacts how the rest of the team is set up and functions in this formation. If he gets a couple of players that allow us to go closer to the actual end gaol then i agree it makes it more possible to evaluate players cause then you are looking to see how Martinez reacts and adapts to a proper flying wing back on his side rather than effectively another fullback. But if the entire system is compromised because we don't have the players to actually do it… then that also means your evaluation of the players in other positions will be flawed.

You say the oplayers would have to start over - thats insane? They just forget what has been happening in training up to this point? If we play 433 vs Fulham the last two months may as well not have happened?

A part of the reason the previous managers compromised was because they didn't have the players to do what they needed. and part of the reason it never got to where it needed to go was because they NEVER got the players they needed to do the thing they wanted.

Even if we stick with 343 and Amorims way (and we should, in general) if we NEVER buy him the wingbacks needed, or the 10s etc then he will also fail, regardless of whether he compromises.

Excellent post… how people can’t see this is beyond me to be honest. If he compromises his playing principles to try and stabilise he’s a dead man walking. I mean there’s no way we’re going to be relegated so what would be the point in taking that approach anyway? To finish with a few more points and a couple of places up the table?

For me its absolutely imperative that he sticks with his own method …. the method that got him the job in the first place…and if the club don’t support him with the players he needs to get to where he wants to be then that’s on them and you’d have to wonder why they hired him in the first place.

I'm with dm7 and the guys on this one. I'm fed up of the cycle the club has been in to hire manager, start new project, won't work because of players, change back to safe project, sack manager because we haven't improved,start new project.

I think it's pretty clear to me that Amorim was hired to change united to align with his system and ideas. It's clear he has the full backing and direction from the club to implement his ideas and not change from that.

He has said countless times he can tweak his tactics but will not change his ideas. For those calling for a safer formation rememeber these are the players that made mistake after mistake playing in 4231 or 433 under ETH.

Amorim hasn't come in and made the players worse, he has come in and change a style of play while not dropping further down the league with a bunch of players that were failing miserably before he came in.

Some players will learn the system better if they play in it more, preparing them better for next season. We might end up finishing 12th instead of 8th, but be in a better position for next season? Axing the wingbacks but maintaining the possession oriented approach is an option but RA clearly isn't comfortable doing that as he has never played without wingbacks in his managerial career? It's probably too much of a step into the unknown for him. Ironically he's probably more likely to experiment without wingbacks once he's established himself at the club and has full trust. If he changes now it looks desperate and panicky, and might backfire.

I am a little surprised the club did not have a wingback lined up for him in early January but it probably speaks more to the fact that we're really close to the line on PSR.