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Trump - The positives - (see Mod note in OP)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,800 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Casually ignoring that a majority of the electorate voted for Clinton in 2016, and that 75 million voted for Harris in Nov eh?

    Democrats lose because the party leadership have abandoned the working class, simple as that. They are the 90s era Republican Party, at a time the country needs the Democratic Party of FDR and Johnson.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Christian minister stirs outrage by asking for Trump to follow the teachings of Jesus. US Evangelicals hate Jesus, to the surprise of no one



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,892 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Which economy, though?

    Macro-economy? Sure. The US figures were fantastic.

    Micro-economy? Folks were having more trouble making ends meet. And they don't care so much about year-on-year GDP growth or what the S&P 500 is doing.

    Obviously not something we can be sure Trump is going to be a 'positive' of, but there was more to the 'perception' than simply being 'perception'. Unless you want to tell someone that they are not perceiving their bank balance correctly when they go to the ATM.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    You just proved my point

    Who needs real world facts and statistics

    IMG_5662.jpeg


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,892 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I think you'll find that's all sorts of accounts from all sorts of people. The spike after 2009 was because the measurement changed, after then it included pre-paid debit cards, it didn't before.

    The day-to-day bank account is a checking account, the median is $2,800. If you're under 35, the median is $1,600. Five years ago the national median checking account was $2,480 which, if you run it into an inflation calculator for 2023 dollars, is $2,955. A decrease from 2019 to 2023 figures.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/42-people-avoid-looking-checking-201512632.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALn-EMefc0kj7O5fUcEGxbJ7dMbUoH3cnoIsQWg8MDMVir7cA47VWZiHIY6vkIsET0s2xHKrXZXZUnlt3MwbuZwyL2M7ycCZccph4zPUuYUBQAPPY2F0X6XEA16-0n6ttjNPCf1h8reFmaQSXu58Y2LCYaWOYMEfUQffdZzUdRnX'

    It gets better when you're older. Of course, if you're 45-54 where the median is $3,400, that may well be a shared household account for a married couple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,489 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This.

    One of the features of the US economy is that it is characterised by a very high degree of inequality, by comparison with other developed economies.

    For example, the managing director of Swedish mid-sized company might earn ten times the average wage across the company, but the MD of a similar US company might earn fifty times the average wage in that company. (Those are not real figures; they're plucked out of the air just to illustrate what I mean by "inequality".)

    And, relevantly, over the lifetime of most current voters, inequality in the US has been increasing; the gap between the high earners and the low earners or average earners has been getting larger and larger.

    Which means that you can have the US as a whole getting significantly wealthier, but most people deriving little or no benefit from that because the bulk of the additional wealth accrues to a small cohort of the population who are already pretty wealthy. In that situation, for the bulk of the population real wages, real houshold expenditure and real consumption stagnate or barely move. Life doesn't get progressively better for them (at least, not in terms of living standards).

    That's a problem because for most of the last century, or longer, the social contract has been that if you work hard and take the opportunties that life offers things will get better — you will establish financial/economic security; you will acheive a modest prosperity; you will be confident that your children will, in time, be better of than you are.

    And it's a problem that's exacerbated if you know that wealth is growing; you're constantly told the country is booming; you can see all around you evidence of a wealthy class from which you, and your children, are excluded, seemingly forever.

    In a situation like that, someone who offers to disrupt the existing system looks attractive. The existing system isn't working for you, so why wouldn't you want it disrupted?

    If we're honest, the likelihood of Trump disrupting the existing system to the benefit of the average Joe and the average Jane is not very great. Certainly, the billionaire tech bros who surround and boost him do not expect this. Plus, he himself can barely conceal his disdain for "losers", by which he means people who work hard, play by the rules and put themselves out for others. The last thing he wants to do is benefit them; he despises them. Finally, his complete inability to grasp even the most basic economic facts means that, even if he did want to secure econcomic betterment for ordinary Americans, he wouldn't have the first clue how to go about doing that. Instead he'd come up with bizarre notions like replacing income tax with tariffs.

    But none of this really matters. Trump will disrupt the existing system, and he claims that he will do so to the advantage of ordinary Americans. That's a claim that people want to hear made, and they are not motivated to scrutinise it too closely; they want to believe it, and so they do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Always found it incredible the amount of abuse Trump got in his first term for interacting with Putin and Kim Jong Un. Anyone who views direct lines of dialogue open between any two leaders as being a bad thing is a complete failure of a human and should really take a look at themselves.

    And yet, the war mongering democrats get empathy, excuses and a free pass in the media…

    Backwards world we live in. Some just want to see the world burn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 903 ✭✭✭Dr Robert




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,032 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It's off the charts BS to claim Trump is a common sense President after we watched him hold the office for 4 years, after we saw everything he did in the 4 years since he held it and also in the 4 days since he has assumed it again. I struggle to believe someone can hold that view and simultaneously have the ability to carry out objective analysis. And that isn't a dig, that's an objective take on the position indicated based on the factual evidence.

    There's nothing common sense about ignoring the evidence with respect to the climate and the impact of fossil fuels on associated events.

    There's nothing common sense about undermining medical professionals as he did throughout the worst pandemic in 100 years.

    There's nothing common sense about insulting 100's of millions of people by calling their countries sh*tholes while you're the sitting President.

    There's nothing common sense about using tariffs to deal with inflation.

    There's nothing common sense about allowing yourself to be recorded asking the head of elections in a state to just find enough votes so the election results can be overturned in your favour.

    There’s nothing common sense about grabbing women by their genitals just because yiu want to and yiur famous.

    There's nothing common sense about telling people you know more about every topic than the bona fide experts working in the respective fields for decades.

    There's nothing common sense about reacting to being challenged by insulting the person who challenged you.

    There's nothing common sense about implying you can take over sovereign nation states or their entities just because you want to control them.

    Theres nothing common sense about undermining the largest global military allegiance by captivating your partner members because of the result of how your country used that organization to further yiur interests since it's inception.

    There's nothing common sense about taking Top Secret Documents and refusing to return them and sharing them with guests to your property.

    There's nothing common sense about massively undermining the results of the election you lost and trying to circumvent the constitution and inciting a riot that led to an insurrection.

    There's nothing common sense about promising to deliver massive change on day 1 of your Presidency and failing to do it within the 4 yr term.

    There's nothing common sense about falling to hold to account the nation state that butchered one of your citizens because of the journalistic work they were doing.

    There's nothing common sense about claiming an active genocide has nothing to do with your country after the President of your country, who's office you now hold funded that genocide.

    Does anyone want me to go on?

    Common sense isn't that common, is it?

    And for the OP, there aren't several places here to say bad things about Trump. There's places to discuss his Presidencys and campaigns and it just so happens a lot of people dislike a lot about him. So what, deal with it. There's more.than enough evidence to support that dislike.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,187 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    A president that does exactly what he said he would do, the shame of it 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,680 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    lots of positives.
    I think of you can cut through the twitter crap he espouses and look at what he actually does, then it shouldn’t be difficult to understand why he was elected.
    Governments in democracies swing like pendulums. Unfortunately they swing to far each direction, but that’s necessary. Things had gone crazy under Biden.
    I do think uk will follow, unfortunately we have to wait four years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Seneca the Stoic


    He is attractive to many because he doesn’t lecture to or judge them. For him, they are fine just the way they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,032 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    How's that health-care bill and border wall genius?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,032 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What would you call this? If not lecturing or judging?

    bishop.png

    Bear in mind, what age dud to offend him was express empathy for people and ask him to show compassion.

    "Doesn't lecture......" Really?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Seneca the Stoic




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,032 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    He's lectured to everyone, just at different times. And don't blame the media for this.

    No President in the history of the planet has had more of their thoughts and words broadcast to the world. And he wanted it that way. He judged himself while in office by the TV ratings he was getting ffs.

    I mean, am I watching a different reality to the rest of you guys?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123087651#Comment_123087651You need to lookup how medians work

    But if you can’t understand medians here is net household wealth by bands

    IMG_5663.jpeg

    Speaking of net wealth, the combined net wealth of trump cabinet is several orders of magnitude larger than Bidens

    These people don’t worry about price of chicken eggs but Faberge eggs

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/12/06/trump-billionaires-cabinet-ethics/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/12/06/trump-billionaires-cabinet-ethics/


    But no amounts of facts and figures and statistics matters, it’s like arguing with religious people when comes to Trumpers, their saviour god king has arisen, constitution be damned

    Post edited by j62 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,032 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Things had gone crazy under Biden.

    How exactly? Be specific please.

    I presume you've yiur fingers crossed for a massive swing in UK Politics to see Farages reform gain power in 2029. Is that what you are alluding to?

    Farage who ran for parliament 8 times before getting a seat and who has only delivered 1 thing in his life (and not even directly at that) which is a Brexit that has decimated the UK to the point where his party deputy leader or whatever he is and his Brexit cheering partner are apparently moving to Dubai.

    People will be all shortly claiming TDS for those of us who vehemently dislike him and meanwhile we're posting several 100 word posts with evidence of why we dislike him, they're posting vaccuous waffle about how great apparently he is with no proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,489 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I'm aware of how medians work. I don't know why you would think otherwise.

    More generally, I don't know what point you're trying to make. The data you post seems to confirm my viewpoint, not undermine it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭ronjo


    The majority of the abuse he got was for the way he cow towed to Putin in Finland saying he believed him more than his own people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,489 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    He was rightly abused for that. But, to be fair, we have to acknowledge that he also got - quite rightly - dog's abuse for a great many other things besides.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭ronjo


    sure but thats nothing to do with what I was replying to



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    You went off on a tangent about inequality in US (which btw has also improved under Biden heading in a more European direction)

    When replying to a comment about median current account balances which by the very nature of medians would account for extremes on both ends

    And yes I well aware US has extremes of wealth, these extremes are now at the court of King Trump and you can bet the price of eggs is the least of their concerns



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I doubt that the mega rich know what eggs are let alone the price of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Trump is the leader the republicans always needed. He is the most unifying character in history, would remind you of a pacifist Napoleon!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Using median is a well-known tool of a dishonest statistician



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    People were not perceiving their bank balance correctly when they went to the ATM.

    Every single metric related to the micro-economy was also showing that people were better off. Real wages were up (and increased the most among the bottom quintile), disposable spending was up - for all the complaints about food costs, spending on food outside the home was massively up. The number of people who claimed their personal financial situation was good flipped from a minority to a strong majority in November. It was never based on reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Another one who didn’t pay attention in school

    The basic feature of the median in describing data compared to the mean (often simply described as the "average") is that it is not skewed by a small proportion of extremely large or small values, and therefore provides a better representation of the center.”

    But it’s ok!

    We can now measure economic success based on price of eggs!

    Checks Reddit front page, oh dear what’s this

    IMG_5664.jpeg


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The median Savings account balance is however up and the median transaction account balance is $8,000.

    https://www.fool.com/money/research/average-savings-account-balance/#:~:text=The%20typical%20American%20has%20%248%2C000,in%20those%20accounts%20is%20%2462%2C410.

    I don't believe a significant portion of people when they say they live paycheque to paycheque, frequently it just means they are finding ways to spend all their money. When you have close to 50% of people claiming it, it is transparently a ridiculous metric not borne out by any facts whatsoever.



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