Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

y0ssar1an22 · 22-01-2025 08:12AM

closer now in valuation, but getting worryingly high. will prob be financed by selling garnacho.

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1881869497050812825

Mantis Toboggan · 22-01-2025 08:19AM

If Mount a walking cripple in the last year of his contract is worth 55 million then 20 year old Garnacho with a contract to 2028 is worth 100 million. If we sell him for anything less it's pure incompetence from Glineos & I'd be having serious doubts about their ownership.

Eleusis · 22-01-2025 08:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123082163#Comment_123082163

Maybe because Fernandes isn't big and strong enough?? Man utd heirchy finally realizsing the team is made up of pansies. If the premier league was brawling instead of football, id be fairly confident man utd would finish last. They need some speed strength and athleticism in anyone they sign from now on.

We are a bit like the old arsenal (after invincibles) they were just easily walked all over.

BKtje · 22-01-2025 08:30AM

But Mount was never worth 55 million, the club overpaid massively and you want to use that as a benchmark. In that case, let's buy some average player for 60 million and then claim Garnacho is worth 300 million.

Most clubs are very tight with their finances as we will have to be going forward, else they end up in a similar situation to our club!

pjohnson · 22-01-2025 08:39AM

If we are considering splurging 40m on raw potential in Dorgu we still aren't being tight with money, and appear to be making similar transfer disasters as we did under the old ownership. Selling Garnacho would be the cherry on top.

All_in_Flynn · 22-01-2025 08:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123082845#Comment_123082845

You're not paying for the player he is now. You're paying the money because he has massive scope.

Caustic · 22-01-2025 08:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083310#Comment_123083310

The deal sounds like it will be close to 20 mil with ads ons, the nearest deal.we would have to that under the last ownership is Amad.

Other inexperienced youngsters bought under the last ownership off the top of my head where martial, dalot and pellesrtri.

Pellesrtri we will probably profit on, dalot has been value for his price, martial would have been fine had he not gotten the huge 2nd contract and Amad is a massive success so far.

Its not a signing we did very often and outside of martial no real disasters I can remember and the mistake with him was the massive contract something the new ownership don't appear to be doin

y0ssar1an22 · 22-01-2025 09:16AM

dalot would be an interesting player to try and move on. his book value now must be nil so same as garnacho in that respect.

i'd say he is at his ceiling now and just not quite good enough at either end of the pitch.

was he linked with barce previously? though they are broke so i dunno who his suitors might be.

PARlance · 22-01-2025 09:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083310#Comment_123083310

Ineos spent 60m on a (promising) teenager who was in the last year of his contract last summer. Dorgu wouldn't be a surprise.

Mitch Connor · 22-01-2025 09:23AM

A fear I have with selling Garnacho, as I have said many times is that we will not replace him this window, or to a lesser degree that we would replace him with a very raw player like Nene, who is older and not pulling up trees in Austria imo.

A problem I see with this United side is the lack of threat moving up the pitch - we don't have many players that will look to run in behind the defence, or their marker, or carry look to carry the ball at pace at the defence.

We regularly play with fullbacks at wingbacks, who will generally look to progress via the pass and Mazraoui doesn't offer an off the ball attacking run threat imo. Dalot offers it but doesn't do much with it.

Mainoo is struggling this season, imo, but will get better - but he is a recycler of the ball and while he can and sometimes does carry it through the opposition he isn't a specific driving threat. Ugarte certainly isn't. Bruno looks to drop deeper and then spay the ball. Zirkzee does the same. Amad likes the ball into feet.

The only real verticality we see in the side is offered by Hojlund, who even I would say is shocking at the moment, Amad if he plays at RWB as he will look to run beyond the first defender and recieve behind them, and Garnacho.

If we sell Garnacho and we don't replace him with a viable, pacey, carrying, goal threat to play either 10 then we will continue to see problems like vs Brighton where the team isn't able to stretch the opposition because everyone is coming short and the entire pitch contracts - and we become so easy to shut down and counter.

I also have issues with selling a 20yo attacker that has shown the promise Garnacho has but would concede that (1) we need to generate money and United are showing no ability to do so other than this potential sale (2) Garnacho is not a perfect fit for Amorim's style and (3) it looks like he is actively pushing to leave so even if we kept him now we are probably going to see similar stories and links every other window he remains.

Mantis Toboggan · 22-01-2025 09:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083440#Comment_123083440

Yeah Ineos for all their talk are starting to look as bad or worse than the Glazers

Mitch Connor · 22-01-2025 09:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083433#Comment_123083433

I get what you are saying about ceiling and value etc… but I think he is too valuable to sell.

While I think he is a limited wingback and having him (and specifically another fullback on the other side starting) can cause us attacking and build up problems, I wouldn't think of selling him.

Right now are options at LWB are… Him. If we get Dorgu it is a (very?) promising kid, and him.
Our options at RWB are Amad, Dalot and Mazraoui.

If we sold him we would need to be a LWB to replace him - which is arguably needed regardless (Dorgu rotating with another viable left footer for eg) and we would also need a RWB - I think Mazraoui is a worse WB option than Dalot and should be mostly considered a wide CB option, i'd have him first choice RCB right now, personally.

I think Dalot's versatility and his fitness/availability are massive assets that we should be looking to keep hold of.

El Gato De Negocios · 22-01-2025 09:29AM

Above is our most recent transfers, pre then post INEOS.

Pre INEOS

Onana - 50/50, I dont see him as a long term option, miss and over payment.

Ras - 50/50, he has potential but needs alot of work, jury's out but definite over payment.

Mount - definite miss due to his abysmal injury record, theres a player there that would flourish under RA but hes too unreliable, over payment.

Of the departures, only Elanga has looked decent but he wouldn't be a regular starter for us so selling him was the correct decision.

Post INEOS

Yoro - has shown potential but he also got roasted against Southampton. Big fee but he was one of the most coveted players in world football. Jurys out but it was an over payment.

Ugarte - in the main a hit, and given his age profile good value for money.

MDL - As Ugarte.

Maz - definite hit and probably the best value we've gotten in over 15 years.

Zirks - Jurys out but he has shown potential, probably overpaid but given his age profile and being on the back of a strong season not massively so.

Of the outgoings MCT was in the final year of his contract and would not be a starter for us. Greenwood has way too much baggage plus we have a 50% sell on fee for him, hes having a great season for Marseille and Id bet my bottom dollar we will get at least another €25m out of the deal for him when he moves to a bigger club. AWB was in his final year, Kambwala and the rest we not going to feature. Alvaro we have a low buy back clause inserted.

My point?

Since INEOS have come in we have only really over paid for Yoro but the kid has a massive ceiling and was guaranteed to be at Madrid next season. In the main they have placed a ceiling on what they are willing to pay and stuck to it. INEOS are working to untangle the absolute clusterfcuk that is the clubs finances following two decades of mismanagement. Are they perfect? No, but what owners are? We are likely going to build a new, state of the art stadium and are in the process of a huge upgrade to Carrington. They are operating like an entity that actually cares about the club. Now Im under no illusion, their primary goal is to ultimately make money but they know that in order to do so, huge changes were and are needed at the club. We will see rival fans throw shade about them cutting jobs and reducing payments for club ambassadors but so feckin what? I am confident that our days of paying whatever selling clubs as for is over and that proper structures are now in place to manage this. Its going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

pjohnson · 22-01-2025 10:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083485#Comment_123083485

But I dont get the Dorgu potential based signing over a more established first choice yet surprisingly cheaper for us player like like Alvaro.

while we need a LWB we need to mind the pennies. So Dorgu imo would be an overspend, same as Yoro.

If we can get a currently better player cheaper possibly meaning we can afford a second player with that saved money we'd be much better off.

Daroxtar · 22-01-2025 10:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083469#Comment_123083469

If they got us relegated, sold all the players, burned Old Trafford to the ground and got caught on a private jet heading to an island with Prince Andrew they'd still be better than those parasite ba5tards

y0ssar1an22 · 22-01-2025 10:59AM

i think with the fees being reported i'd rather we exercise buyback on alvaro. the only thing i can think of is he said he wouldn't come back.

pjohnson · 22-01-2025 11:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083891#Comment_123083891

Yep. No reason whatsoever to spend double on a currently lesser high potential player. Alvaro still has a crap tonne of potential himself and could still easily be a much better player than Dorgu 4-5 years down the line.

The answer is staring INEOS in the face. If Dorgu was 10m then it'd be something to consider but hes in no way worth more than Alvaro's buyback clause.

El Gato De Negocios · 22-01-2025 11:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083708#Comment_123083708

What's the buyback on Alvaro, think I read £16m somewhere which is approx €19m. The point mentioned above about the players desire to move could also be relevant. I don't disagree with your sentiment tbh but its alot more nuanced than simply buy Alvaro because he's cheaper.

Mitch Connor · 22-01-2025 11:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083931#Comment_123083931

Or… the people who watched Alvaro at the club, and the scouts, rate Dorgu higher for the requirements of the role? Maybe they don't think he has the pace, or physicality or something?

LIke I dunno - maybe Alvaro is and always will be the better player and everyone at the club is just a moron. Could be true. I'd have believed it easily with Woodward, Arnold and Murtough deciding on things.

Can there be no logical reason for United to not exercise the buy back and buy a more expensive player instead? Considering the money situation do you think the club have just forgotten about Alvaro? Do you think they have decided to spend more for fun?

Could they feel Dorgu is better?
Could they feel Dorgu is more likely to be a first choice player in the medium term so spending 30m now is better than spending 16m on Alvaro and then having to buy another first choice LWB in the summer?
Could they feel the versatility Dorgu has shown is a valuable trait that Alvaro doesn't have?

Given the option of Alvaro is as blatantly obvious as you point out… would you not consider that maybe the club have thought about it and have logical, viable reasoning for the direction they might be looking to go?

Obviously, all that said, it could also be that while there are logical reasons to act as they seeminly are, that their evaluation of the players proves to be flawed and we are making the wrong call.

pjohnson · 22-01-2025 11:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083958#Comment_123083958

Yeah its £16/€20m.

Obviously if he turns us down thats a gamechanger. But when he left he was ETH's 3rd/4th choice LB. He'd be joining as RA's 1st choice LWB so that alone might easily change his thinking.

Iseedeadpixels · 22-01-2025 11:36AM

Maybe Alvaro just doesn't want to join us again 🤷🏻‍♂️

fatherted1969 · 22-01-2025 12:20PM

Always felt we are in the mire with FFP, nothing screams firesale more than selling Garnacho. I could agree with some moves out but not Garnacho. Never felt the dislike I see about him from some posters, I'd be quite happy to see him continue his development at Old Trafford. He's only 20 ffs, years away from the finished article

Whatsisname · 22-01-2025 12:54PM

Dunno if it was here or reddit I read this but there could be a clause stopping us from buying Alvaro back within 12 months too, but if not, I'd probably echo others thoughts, he's cheaper and playing at a far higher level than Dorgu and has been at the club before, but that could be a reason why he doesn't want to return!

Iseedeadpixels · 22-01-2025 12:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123084298#Comment_123084298

I think theres a big worry about his attitude.

Rocket_GD · 22-01-2025 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123084437#Comment_123084437

He's playing for one of the biggest clubs in Portugal, who are in Champions League, no doubt on more than a decent wage, with far better weather and closer to home (Spain). There's a multitude of positive reasons for him to stay where he is for the next couple of years and develop further at his age.

Or he could come back to the bin fire that is Manchester United atm, a club that he didn't get opportunities at even when there was a LB crisis. I know which one seems more appealing.

BenK · 22-01-2025 01:34PM

Just on the the narrative of Garnacho pushing to leave, where is that coming from? Not to say it's not out there but I've heard nothing of him actually wanting to leave.

FourFourRED · 22-01-2025 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123084615#Comment_123084615

I think it was reported that his agent was meeting someone from Napoli in Paris. (Loose memory of what I read). Now that doesn’t mean he is definitely pushing to leave at all but his team are probably discussing the possibility of it, if they’ve been given an indication that United are looking to sell.

22-01-2025 01:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123083891#Comment_123083891

That doesn't really address the issue of a lack of attacking threat from the wing backs. Maybe he can improve and it would probably be prudent financially for United at this stage but he's very much a full back seemingly.

Quags · 22-01-2025 03:31PM

and those bold boys at INEOS are to blame for the current situation of job cuts etc

The Big Easy · 22-01-2025 03:40PM

Has anyone thought that Dorgu is a MR replacement, considering how he's playing right wing and all 🤪

Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

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