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Forming the next Irish Government - policies and personalities

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,336 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Taxation is about trying to change behaviour.
    If there are carbon taxes, it means that other forms of fuel/energy/transportation are cheaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,336 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The flights cuts made in Spain, due to higher fees from the Spanish Government? Those flight cuts?


    Are you proposing so, that the government follow suit and raise fees for air travel, in the hope that there will be less demand for flights?
    Are SF proposing this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,950 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I doubt that SF will propose something like that. They appear to believe that business as usual is the way to address climate change. They have no serious policies in relation to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Whether it's FF FG or SF etc, the focus on climate change here should be educating citizens and awareness campaigning while working in the EU to target real polluters like the aviation business and industrial sectors.
    Once that is done penalise/tax the ordinary citizen if they are still contributing to CC.
    At the moment it is ineffectually arse about face. Maybe with the Greens gone that reverse can happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Like what? None of us consumers have a choice about how our electricity is generated for instance, but the price of it has skyrocketed over the past few years. Compare the prices of green cars compared to fuel driven. Taxes are just a form of abusing consumers not actually doing anything about improving the situation as regards to climate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,950 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    People seem to think that we can address climate change only through a carrot and wishful thinking approach - that is the basis of the Sinn Fein policy, for example. However, that won't help, we need a carrot and stick approach, that will mean further carbon tax increases, more taxes on aviation and on internal combustion engines etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,642 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That's not an argument for removing carbon taxes, it's an argument for increasing them.

    The money raised by carbon taxes has been used for worthwhile environmental initiatives and even the RIG accept that this needs to continue and carbon taxes will continue to gradually rise.

    But at the risk of introducing facts into a discussion about "feels", Irish carbon dioxide emissions peaked several years ago.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/12/20/climate-plan-irelands-emissions-peak-despite-growing-economy-and-rising-population/

    https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/12/21/irelands-emissions-peaked-several-years-ago-says-ryan/

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    I'm not arguing your point blanch. I'm asking what alternatives to that have the past govt including the Greens provided?

    Hit on what SF won't do all you like, tell us what has been done to stop it apart from taxes and price gouging for the alternatives?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,642 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    "real polluters like aviation" - it's constantly demonised but makes up about 3% of global carbon dioxide emissions.

    The elephant in the room, as far as Ireland is concerned, is dairy farming.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,642 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The big increases we had in gas and electricity were caused by international factors.

    If only we weren't so dependent on imported fossil fuels…

    As I stated above, the carbon taxes are being used for environmental initiatives like retrofitting. Carbon tax is small compared to the VAT you pay on electricity and gas. It's positively tiny compared to the excise and VAT you pay on petrol and diesel. The whinging about it is out of all proportion, and pointless anyway. Carbon tax is not going away, and shouldn't.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    I thought you might like to read a definition of fascism. The only political party in Ireland that fits the criteria is SF!

    "Fascism  a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of oppositionAt the core of fascism is loyalty to tribe, ethnic identity, religion, tradition, or, in a word, nation."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And figures from the World Bank and the European Commission estimate that Ireland is responsible for around 0.1% of global emissions.

    So even if you culled every cow and locked up every farmer you'd make a miniscule change to climate change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SF threads all thataway »»»

    This one is about the next Irish Government - policies and personalities



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,260 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I don't think that anybody disagrees that increased taxation changes behaviour but to change behaviour you need to have an alternative. In the case of the smoking taxes the alternative to filling your lungs with smoke is to fill it with fresh air

    Like it or not there is no alternative in much of the country to driving or oil boilers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,616 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The optics of this new government are terrible. Healy Raes, Lowry etc. I am surprised by Martin but this is his last rodeo so he probably doesn't care about the optics. I think we will have huge fun during this term. Labour and SDs and II will provide a powerful new opposition voice. Also I think Roderic will be a massive thorn in the government's side because he has the real truth on the chaos of the past few years.

    Still no date for the Children's hospital I see. 8 years late now. No final cost known.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    But that's it in a nutshell. We are still dependent on fossil fuels for most of our electricity and heating. Even if you buy into the new heating systems the power is being generated by fossils, is that's not an instance of a type of hypocrisy being preached at us?

    My question still stands, what has the past govt including the Greens achieved to improve that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The 'arseways' policy again. Ensure there are adequate alternatives first, then penalise those who insist on still using the harmful way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,336 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    There are, if you are bothered to look
    One can get a A2W HP (Grants are available), Gas boilers are cleaner than Oil boilers, etc..

    As to transport, there is public transport options, the Greens did good work on that, but a lot left to do.
    One can also get a PHEV or a BEV.

    There are options, but many people are either too lazy or ignorant to think through them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,336 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    EV's are actually cheaper than many ICE cars now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,336 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    If you want to talk about 'real' polluters, should we target farmers? Is that you opinion?
    Also, if we want to target aviation, should we copy Spain and increase fees on airlines so we reduce flights?
    I think that is what you are saying, so correct me if I am wrong.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    In a like for like situation? I'm sure you can quote me prices for these! You made a pretty broad statement there and from pricing I couldn't find any car with a electric and gas model available with a price matching let alone cheaper electric version. Maybe you could enlighten me?

    I concede that manufacturers are heading towards fazing out fossil fuelled cars and eventually we will all be driving at least hybrid models. But saying they are cheaper is hard to prove in a like for like situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,336 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    In a like for like situation?

    Yes.

    An VW ID3 is a few grand cheaper than a VW Golf to take one example.

    A Tesla Model 3 is great value if you compare to similar Saloons.

    You can get a Hyundai Inster for approx €19k and a Dacia Spring for approx €17k
    A new Nissan Leaf for approx €22k-23k

    EVs were expensive a few years ago,but now, that price differential is all but gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭Doc07


    wouldn’t agree too often with Sinn Fein but they are correct to object to this re the independent group, can’t be in government and opposition at the same time!

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/0117/1491340-ireland-politics/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Lots of media coverage for this Programme for Government which is supposed to set out the next Government's agenda for until 2030. Lots of goodies are promised. Has anyone asked how much this will cost or how it will be funded?

    The section on the Economy is devoid of any concrete actions but lots of waffle like this

    Implement a pro-enterprise tax policy, supporting long term investment in high quality jobs.

    The target of 300,000 extra jobs seems to be plucked from thin air but at least it puts a number on an aspiration. The section on public finances does not mention a single figure, financial or otherwise.

    Still - lots of fun in Leinster House for the pundits. Oooohhh, a row about speaking rights - bring it on 😜



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    And what percentage of motorists can actually afford this? Again it's due to grants that these prices are as you say, not due to actual pricing, therefore its an incentive that helps the higher paid while punishing the less we'll off, including myself, that can't afford to make that jump.

    So my point from the start is still a valid one. Apart from taxation and price gouging, the previous govt has achieved damn all in terms of actually providing anything tangible to prevent the burning of fossils Its a sort of, you go green or we will tax you, but we will burn the fossils and provide the expensive electricity that you're paying for to keep up an appearance of doing something. Is that acceptable in your eyes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Allinall


    They never give specific financial estimates in a programme for government.

    That will come in the various budgets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭Caquas


    There is no reason why they couldn't give an estimate for costs e.g. reducing pupil/teacher ratio or abolishing means-testing for carers. But of course it suits them not to so my question is why won't our media do their jobs and ask these elementary questions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Allinall


    If they're not going to put specifics into the programme for government, then they are certainly not going to tell some journalist on the side of the road.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,826 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There are many reasons.

    Jesus, people are complaining enough about the length of time this took, if you needed them to go into financial details of that kind it would be another few months at least.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,950 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There is an alternative - changing away from our unsustainable dispersed rural settlements - but that may require stronger measures.



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