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"PGA Tour vs. LIV"

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Dan Steely
    1 missile, 165 schoolgirls


    The bbc story is by Stephen Watson. I'd say he has his finger on the golf pulse up there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Based on his interview the other day he's 100% gone. Shame



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭coillcam


    Agreed, if he decided to stay put then it's a simple response to deny the story as nonsense.

    If the 8 million figure is all he's getting I'm surprised he'd decide to jump. It's not much cash for a promising young pro but perhaps he knows more about the background PIF-PGA situation and is punting on it being resolved soon. There may even be other sponsorship stuff and Ryder Cup/DP Tour that's not public to consider.

    I'd imagine the Euro LIV guys are going to play Ryder Cup. Tom will surely need a pick in that situation and probably needing a lot of things to align for that to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭big_drive


    Obviously none of us understand that world of professional golf fully and how decisions are reached so it's just opinion here. But I thought for career progression he'd be better stay and get the experience of playing PGA tour which automatically then could hopefully lead to major appearances, Ryder Cup potentially. Now he may still experience all that but it's more difficult certainly through the LIV route. Now 8 million is huge money but potentially he could do that anyway with 3/4 good years on PGA. I know that's assuming all goes to plan and a slump could hit his game anytime and mess things up. But if he does go I hope it's not just a quick decision to grab the cash without weighing up the long term implications. I was looking forward to having another Irish player to follow on PGA tour so will be disappointed to miss out on that side of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Called Rory straight away to tell him about the offer…Rory saying he would be making a different decision so seems like he’s gone. €5m reportedly. Ridiculous decision IMO, a month after getting his PGA Tour card now going to play on a glorified exhibition tour. As others have said, was looking forward to following him on PGAT, but if he goes I couldn’t care less if we never hear from him again. Wonder if Rahm will have it written into his contract that he has to piss and moan in the media at every opportunity about world ranking points 🙄



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭IAmTitleist


    Really don't see how its a ridiculous decision at all. As a 22 year old having received an offer of 5 million straight in your bank is a deal that you would have to seriously consider. Life changing money.

    Not to mention he could go on and make another 4/5 million easily if he performs well.

    Couldn't care less if you never hear of him again? Strange attitude to have for the best young player to emerge from the island since Rory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭big_drive


    Would be afraid he'll end up like Meronk. Not getting access to majors is a big blow for his career progression, also rules out making Ryder Cup. I think he'd have learned a lot on PGA tour this year. Can't see that on LIV, there's no real consequences for playing poor. I think on PGA tour he'd have at least developed his competitive edge that he'll need to have a long and successful career. It might all work out fine, he may make plenty money and be happy with that. I was hoping we'd have another Irish player who might hopefully develop into a contender for majors. Think he's made that much harder now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,135 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    Don't know if people are subscribed to the Normal Sport newsletter. It's a good read on Golf.

    The latest one had a part of a write up about Eugenio Chacarra, one of the first guys who joined who has now been dropped from the roster

    “When I joined LIV, they promised OWGR and majors. But it didn’t happen. I trusted them. I was the first young guy, then the others came after I made the decision. But OWGR and majors still hasn’t happened. It’s frustrating, but I’m excited for the new opportunity and to see where my game takes me.”

    "I see what it’s like to win on the PGA Tour and how your life changes. How you get major access and ranking points. On LIV, nothing changes, there is only money.”

    The article was focussed in on those last 4 words...there is only money

    And ultimately that's the fact of it right now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Why is it a strange attitude to have? He obviously doesn’t care about playing in majors or Ryder Cups or competing at the highest level…he only cares about money, so why should I be bothered for him?
    He’s made over €2.5m on the DPWT, where prize money is largely a pittance compared to PGAT (which he now has a card for), so if he plays decent golf for a couple of years he’ll have no bother earning €5m…not to mention endorsements etc., which would only be increasing with that card.
    But sure take the easy money, lose the competitive edge and spend a couple of years whinging about being vilified for joining a sports washing charade or not earning world ranking points or whatever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,961 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Is he really giving up his chance to play in all 4 majors this season?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭big_drive


    He's already qualified for British Open. But other than that it will be hard to get in to any others, he won't have same avenues available



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,518 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    I suppose he's thinking he'll play LIV and then play the European tour when suits. He can bag the money from LIV and when he leaves he can come back full time on the European tour.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,961 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Golf is fucked if a lad like that doing that ....mental ****...life ahead of him…all the experiences of being that age . That form hitting a full season on full world tour..

    Very sad..

    Hope he is happy in his big big house on the clown tour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭blue note


    This really emphasises what the problem with the youngsters going to LIV is. If you become that wealthy at 20 years old, being that wealthy becomes normal to you. And what do you do then? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd have thought that the vast majority of top golfers grew up dreaming about winning the biggest tournaments, not getting sign on bonuses for going to a different tour. It just seems unfulfilling. The novelty of being able to buy whatever it is that you dreamed of must wear off pretty quickly. And what they've given up is the opportunity to pursue golfing immortality by etching their names onto the biggest trophies.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,819 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Fair post, but all "us" keyboard warriors do not know what is the drive for likes of McKibbon.

    Does he see it as a job?

    Is he passionate about the PGA tour (a tour than did exactly what LIV is currently doing to it, to the Euro Tour over the last ~20yrs).

    Does he value less time playing?

    Very easy for us to say his earnings will continue or improve but golf is not like that, is he securing his and his future family financial security that will lead to him having a better quality of life?

    Does he want to be part of a global tour and not just US centric?

    I hope whatever decision he made works out for him but overall I hope the various Tours get their act together and sort this out. There remains plenty of space for the big two (PGA and LIV) to exist side by side and to combine the best of both at (at least) the majors. The majority of the rest of the tournaments are becomes less and less involving with the big names absent.

    My stuff on Adverts, mostly Tesla Pre Highland Model 3

    Public Profile active ads for slave1



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,961 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    I guess the idea of being on a forum is to be a keyboard warrior in a way..but there is nothing wrong with that ..If you follow, or are a fan of any sport ..you can be very very passionate about it..if it was in a pub ..on the street ...on a golf course, it would be the same .one of the joys of sport is the opinions and emotions of the fans...gaa and rugby can bring people to near death, edge of seat experiencs ..soccer can bring an entire nation to a standstill..the Ryder cup can have grown men dressed in European flags and ridiculously in tears . The recent Olympics was an absolutely glorious national collective experience...

    Sport ends up being about cash ...but no kid or anyone falls in love with a sport because of money..top pros want to win the top events ...it is about legacy , history ...

    There are so many sports people would do for free...pay to do them. GAA in particular...staying Amateur to be in Olympics..

    The idea of a 22 year old giving up a chance to play in the Masters for money, is an absolute nonsense and deserves ridicule..I know golf can have a reputation of being elite and perhaps money mad people do proliferate around golf.

    In all this, the fans have an opinion, a role and are stakeholders..most pro sports are completely pointless and have no buisness case without the fans or audience.

    It's a sad situation and fairly clear some people value money over literally everything else. We all know what LIV is ..a pointless disruption and sportswashing.

    Glad to see Rahm being absolutely brutal this week...he can go back to his big big house ..and he might reflect on the time he was world number 1 ..loved by fans and significant..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,909 ✭✭✭Trampas


    He can do what he wants but I don’t want to hear crocodile tears about world ranking points, majors or Ryder cup. I just find it strange that he has just as soon as he could. For the age he is and he’s not from a nation that it’s all about the money. He could be forgotten like a few who’ve gone over and they be even bigger names. Just looking at owgr and Dustin Johnson just playing majors. Westwood, Casey, Poulter, McDowell are retired bar liv. Even if pga and liv sort it all out mckibbin could really struggle to keep his pga card and might never get it back. Can’t see him getting any sponsors invites



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭IAmTitleist


    Everything in your last paragraph is purely hypothetical.

    It didn't look like he'd lost his competitive edge this weekend. 🤐



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭coillcam


    The first LIV event is in Riyadh on 6th February. He should be formally announced this week I'd imagine.

    Before that, the DP Tour has scheduled two small events in UAE and Bahrain. I suspect he stays in the Middle East and plays one of these before his debut.

    The competitive edge point is a curious one. Koepka, Bryson and Hatton haven't lost it. Koepka had a resurgence if anything and I think being clean of injuries is a big part of it.

    On the other side of the coin, you have to look at Oosthuizen, Cameron Smith and DJ dropping off. Smith was trending so well in the run-up to capturing The Open at St Andrews. You can argue he's still a threat with T6 in The Masters last year but he had a missed cut for The Open and never threatened the other two majors.

    From a golfing perspective, Harrington's point about how much we will develop on LIV is the big one. There are no cuts and less rounds to play. Will he face enough pressure week to week to hone his mental resolve or will it sharpen his game at all?

    It's a lot easier for Rory, Shane or any others to chirp up when they have a long lucrative career behind them. Lowry got $3.5m PIP money and Rory $4.5m last year. Their profile is a lot different and I wonder what a 22 year old Shane would have done after his Irish Open win if LIV was knocking on the door. I get the feeling that Tom understands that it's just a job at the end of the day and is taking advice for the best business decision. A bag of cash today de-risks his life and career massively and he bets that the overall professional golf landscape changes within 5 years. Wherever that may be he's only going to be 27 at that point.

    If he joins a very strong team with Hatton and Rahm, the team money alone can be insane. They had $4.5m each for the 2nd place team at the end of the year. There's scope for Tom to smash/grab an individual win of $4m in any event with only 54 entrants. A good couple of years and he can quite conceivably break $10m without much sweat. It would take a real breakthrough on the PGA tour to make that amount of cash. Yes, access to majors, ranking points and Ryder cup (except wildcard) are the big negatives. At 22 years old, I can understand the risk/reward case that plays out here for Tom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Pretty much everything everyone is saying about it is hypothetical…

    “It didn’t look like he lost his competitive edge this weekend 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪”

    You do realise he hasn’t left yet, or did that fact pass you by in the excitement with the gotcha?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭big_drive


    It would definitely have been worrying if he'd lost it already 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭IAmTitleist


    He's clearly already away ya balloon it just hasn't came from the horses mouth.

    So yes, he's already bagged his however many million and yet was still able to put up an excellently competitive showing this weekend.

    You do realise that when he plays his first LIV Event he is still eligible to play on the DP World Tour?

    🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    can’t debate the point without resorting to insults now?
    I must have missed all those liv events he played 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭IAmTitleist


    We'll soon see if he's "lost the competitive edge" or "whinge about being vilified" or "doesn't care about competing at the highest level."

    On his FIRST start after signing for Liv it doesn't look like any of the above is the case.

    Oh and who won the Dubai Desert Classic this year? Wonder do any of the above apply to Tyrell…he's been on LIV a year now 🤪



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,518 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    They'll need to find a way to get Hatton and Rahm onto the Ryder cup team if they are to have any chance.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    It sure is disappointing for us to watch mckibbin progress, stepping into the shoes of Rory from nearly 2 decades ago, make the PGA, and have that rug pulled out from under us where he'll now disappear off down a hole where we may never see him hit a ball again. He's definitely making what will turn out to be a very unpopular decision. I wonder is it the money, and he's not confident enough in his abilities to make money on the PGA tour, or is it the lure of playing with other players like rahm, hatton, koepka. Could there be an injury worry? Who's mckibbin caddy BTW? Personally I've had another hunch, I hear caddies are treated very well in the LIV tour, and wonder if player caddies in many cases are in their players ears nudging their player down a path that most profitable and high profile for the caddy? What caddy wouldn't prefer to hang out in nice weather in the middle east, work and travel way less, entering reduced field team events over 3 days with way less stress, more guaranteed income, more social life and employment that relies less on players performance, whilst allowing the caddy to live a way less disturbed life, maintain relationship with their spouse etc. If I was a caddy, I'd WAAAY prefer to be a caddy for a LIV player!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭IAmTitleist


    We may never see him hit a ball again??

    LIV players can literally play on the DP World Tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭blue note


    MOD EDIT


    I still don't care about the history of the tournaments. The majors are obviously the 4 biggest, but in the women's game they can even change those around. The WGCs were introduced as massive tournaments and people seemed to accept them. The national opens are the ones to me that should matter from a history point of view, but we've seen them slide in value. What really matters is how you performed against the best in the world in your career. When you think of great players of the game, people like to add a little caveat to their records to mention that not all victories are the same. Sam Snead - some of his wins weren't real tournaments. Greg Norman - a lot of his wins around the world weren't against the best. Monty - never won in America. Golfers have long careers but they're not nearly as long as people seem to think. McKibbon could be giving up a significant portion of his peak years to LIV. And even if he picks up a few wins, no-one will care. Because there's a few of the top players in the world there, but we're not even sure how good they are any more. Or how primed they are for the LIV tournaments.

    But as regards his golfing legacy and the welfare of the professional game - those things don't massively concern me. It's still the sportswashing that makes me hate LIV.

    Post edited by charlieIRL on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭coillcam


    I'd love to talk about your first paragraph too but it's against the forum/site rules. See the forum's charter sticky. Politics and the state/government funding of golf are not permitted topics. I hope that this policy changes in future or is relaxed somewhat but sin é for now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭blue note


    My God. The Saudis have even bought off the boards mods. Their pockets truly are bottomless.



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