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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    build up credits in the summer to pay for winter usage.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    In summer I seen odd days with 25-27KWh on my 4.5kw array

    In winter you be lucky to get a few hundred watts on average day, today is one of the rare sunny winter days and up to 900watts at time of this post

    There’s a daily solar pv thread here somewhere so the data is there for all to see



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    It’s a bit hard to judge as price of electricity went up so much throwing my initial plan off,

    and feed in tarrifs were only introduced recently, before that went to grid for free

    And standing charges and taxes on taxes still appear on bills

    Then Covid led to larger work at home usage

    And funnily enough ended up using much more electricity with plug-in hybrid

    I’m 4 years in, breakeven assuming todays prices is another 4-5 years away, however I doubt the chineseum battery would last that long, panels meant to be to last 2-3 decades

    It’s an ok investment (tho with benefit of hindsight would have made more in stocks) but it still requires esb etc to maintain gas as backup as the overall capacity factor over a year is only 9-10% heavily skewed towards summer (I found May is best)

    IMG_5645.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,423 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …yup, the state, i.e. us, have to stump up billions for future infrastructure developments including energy expansion, our our current strongly expanding and growing economy could simply fall away otherwise, it will costs us billions, but it will cost us significantly more if we dont!

    since we re not willing to entertain serious alternatives such as nuclear, fossil fuels will probably be always in the mix….

    all economies are requiring more and more energy, i.e. demand is increasing, so no need to worry about surpluses….

    hydrogen could very well be a part of the mix, we ll wait and see…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Batteries not included 😂

    Battery my main worry, and looking around I see if anything installation and battery costs have gone up

    You can also see from graph very small year on year drop in panel capacity

    Don’t forget it might be sometime before SEIA pay the grants long after you have to pay the complete install costs, they do drag their feet and there is bureaucracy

    Heh I just checked some energy related stocks in same 4-5 year timeframe

    • XOM Exxon +58%
    • LNG Cheniere +268%
    • BP -14%
    • CVX Chevron +35%
    • Nasdaq +102%
    • S&P +75%
    • Orsted (wind) -56%
    • SO Southern (utility with nuclear) +38%


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    just seen the last paragraph

    Yes being in a very windy spot on west of Ireland was my worry too

    So far knock wood nothing has broken despite some very very bad storms we had

    Panels themselves are light and so is the aluminium frame screwed into the roof frame, but everytime there’s a storm it’s hard not to think of them flying off like trampolines and damaging the roof



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I went early, before it wsa "cool" to put in solar. Paid off in 4 years and that was without FiT

    Now the price has gone up but with FiT if sized correctly and the person does proper research the payoff time can be circa 5-7 years.

    Depends on your usage. If you do the correct sizing you can stay as much as possible off the grid during late spring/summer/autumn months and then if batteries make sense you can offset the load in winter to nighttime only charging. Batteries have come down significantly now since the high point of covid, a lot cheaper



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Why do you constantly spread misinformation?

    Batteries have not gone up, they have come down and on a steady decline,

    Panels at most wil llost 0.5% performance each year. If you can show that from the graph good on you

    You need to listen to people that actually know what they are taking about, the above poster is spreading misinformation

    GO to the threads on boards, you have facebook groups with thousands of users, you have tools now to show exactly what you are using etc if you have smart meter.

    Unfortuneatly on the internet you will find posts like the above which is pure nonsense and misinformation.

    Will solar work for you? no idea, you need to size it first and see if the investment will pay itself in a period you find acceptable etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    When I posted recently about the grid been a mix, it was about the grid now

    You lied again and it's embarrassing

    Now stop quoting me as I no interest in these ramblings of nonsense. As I said, cop on to yourself. It's pathetic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    You also have vested interests whom want to sell questionable “investments”

    The fella asked for my experience and I replied, it’s a mixbag at best especially since generation is so variable

    And no battery and installation costs if anything have gone up, often suspiciously inline with grant amounts, there’s even a thread here in parallel on costs too, and another on generation

    The panels themselves are a tiny fraction of the total cost for a long time now

    So to summarise…

    Me: caveat emptor

    You: oh it’s marketed as green, no one involved will possibly lie or exaggerate or greenwash for a low five figure undertaking



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You couldn't plug in an electric car, yet you are trying to share information on solar panels 😂

    You are spreading misinformation on batteries etc and the degradation of the solar panels

    The grant is going down and not up. So again you are spreading misinformation.

    I never said nobody would exaggerate, I told them to get correct information from the many user groups, not the nonsense and incorrect information you are spreading around

    I would question why you invested in solar panels when you clearly have no understanding of the technology, especially when it is such a big investment. What research did you do before buying and after? as you dont seem in anyway uptodate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    As I posted earlier the only people I have seen regret solar is people who badly researched it first, like you gave examples above. You have an app now which can tell you in seconds the position of the sun in winter/summer and you can quickly confirm if the roof is in the right direction. I don't actually have mine on the optimal roof but I wanted it that way because they are hidden . None of that was available when I invested so it was a huge undertaking to get the information, now its simple

    Not sure who told you to stop making up 1 million reason but I have never said anything of the sort. Solar is a huge investment and it will work for some and not for others, hence why my advice is to massively research first and user groups are the best.

    I have heard of broken tiles but it would be up to the installation company to fix. In terms of tiles coming off your own roof, I would have a good roofing company to look at that, it shouldn't be happening. Could be an underlying issue.

    Cleaning panels? I have never done it, some people will just run cold water over them with a long brush, some companies I think are offering to clean them using the long poles which are used for windows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,618 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Correction. That is what the Green Party in the last government was telling us to do on generation, and neither they or their supporters were even whispering what it would cost and do to our economy from the rooftops or anywhere else. Quietly running away was the tactic when questioned.

    Hopefully the present government being formed will have members capable of having what the greens had not. The ability to understand basic mathematics. As to the question I asked that you didn`t answer as to the number of onshore turbines that would be required. One in every square kilometre of the country. I cannot see many solar panels being squeezed into the area left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Delighted the Greens are gone. Liking the new government priorities so far on transport - less cycle lanes, more roads and motorways and energy security.

    It is appalling how much the Greens have held this country's infrastructure back for the last 5 years. Never again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,423 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    rail is where we should be going to, in order to reduce the over use of cars, wont happen though, so economic and social decline it ll be!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The new government can talk all they like, but the only transport infrastructure projects in planning are public transport ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,461 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Is cargo still being transported by trains? I remember growing up a lot of cargo trains but now there seems to be hardly any or are they run at night. You'd often see the cargo train on the way into connolly from the northside off the side there are East wall heading down to the docks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,423 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    wouldnt have a clue but id imagine the majority is now by good clean diesel trucks, with minimum moving by rail, but baring in mind, theres a hell of a lot more cargo moving around the country nowadays



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    programme for government dropped

    bye bye Dublin airport cap



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    You use the app to determine where to put the solar panels. It'll also give you an estimated output over the year/month etc...based on the orientation, number of panels, roof angle and where you live etc...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,618 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Why do you imagine a government has to adhere to projects in planning from a previous government.

    A quick stroke of a minister`s pen is all it takes to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    I see it stated on he news that wind farms have saved us e840million. Were on the pigs back lads. Why the hell is electricity prices so high then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Noel Cunniffe from lobby group Wind Energy Ireland who are having a 2 day conference in Dublin sent a press release recycling a report they paid for from Baringa consultants, in the form of a press release to environmental churnalists George Lee (RTE/Taxpayer), Kevin O'Sullivan (Irish Times) and Caroline O'Doherty (Irish Independent/Mediahuis).

    Meantime, Irish electricity consumers are told the real story in their electricity bills, ruinable electricity is not cheap for anyone who implements it. All those levies, contracts for difference, constraints, capacity market, balancing costs, carbon taxation, infrastructure costs due to intermittent non-synchronous power generation sources (i.e. wind and solar) + we need inter-connectors (i.e. extension leads) to keep the lights on, especially when we need electricity most.

    * Energie & Netzengelt (Energy & Network fees), Steuern & Abgaben (Taxation)

    image.png

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I believe you are referring to this news article?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2025/0116/1491124-wind-energy/

    The honest answer is, I don't know, but I suspect it's inaccurate

    We get told that our "suppliers" (who are in fact just intermediary billing companies) have to pay the same price per kWh to generation companies regardless of where that kWh has come from. And that price we pay is the highest.

    So let's take an ideal 2030 situation where 80% of our supply comes from renewables. If wind costs 20c/kWh, solar costs 10c and hydro costs 5c, fantastic! Problem is Russia has invaded Ukraine again so gas costs 75c/kWh. We then, for some bizarre, unknown reason, proceed to pay 75c/kWh to the wind, solar and hydro generators.

    Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic our emissions are lower by using wind and if gas was cut off in the morning we'd still have 80%+ of our energy resources when you account for other renewables but make no mistake, the customer sees no financial benefit

    TL;DR

    We pay the same price per kWh regardless of where the electricity comes from so this news article is factually inaccurate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,084 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    I suspect a very selective interpretation of the data

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    What I don’t understand is how with current data in hand like the graph you posted here

    And this graph I posted earlier for 2024

    IMG_5648.png


    how can anyone with a straight face make claims that wind+solar (backed by coal and gas):

    • is cheap
    • is green (low CO2)


    It’s pure gaslighting (ha!) by this stage, the facts are there slapping everyone in face each time they get an electricity bill

    From these two graphs for 2024 it’s abundantly clear that the only European countries that are both cheap and green (often by order of magnitude) are those that embraced some amounts of nuclear power (France, Finland etc)

    While likes of Germany and a Ireland are spending trillions between them on policies that don’t lead to advertised results

    Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Is there any reason why all the passionate pro nuclear power advocates online haven't formed the Irish Nuclear Party and tried to enter government to bring it in. You'd only need 4 or 5 TDs the way the numbers are these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    That would involve giving up nicely paid science and engineering jobs and going into politics and constantly lying to the population

    Notice how politics (especially the “green” kind) attracts all sorts of questionable characters and bicycle repair peddler's

    Neh more than likely the population will backlash and run the eejits out of town with pitchforks like we seen in last election

    Most of the population doesn’t care about CO2 and not smart enough to realise their high cost of living is directly related to failed green policies



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic our emissions are lower by using wind and if gas was cut off in the morning we'd still have 80%+ of our energy resources when you account for other renewables but make no mistake, the customer sees no financial benefit


    Be wary, electricity is a secondary energy source, it will never be 80% of this islands total energy consumption. That 80% electricity generation target was a political announcement made by Eamon Ryan that came as a surprise to the previous Eirgrid CEO who had budgeted for 70% target. Eirgrid are incorporating more intermittent non-synchronous generation on the grid by loosening electrical engineering tolerances, adding flywheels and inter-connectors. All of that comes with extra cost in management, maintenance overhead as well as return on capital invested. When wind turbine blades stop turning, they become net consumers of electricity (monitoring, cooling and unwinding or turning the nacelle into the wind). Wind turbines do not work under conditions of low wind or storm force winds, think about that when placing turbines in the Atlantic ocean, there are huge construction, and servicing costs compared with land based turbines i.e. it is not cheap. At this stage the best sites for wind turbines on land have been taken, newer sites must build ever higher turbines to catch the breezes and based on the loses due to warranty costs from turbine manufacturers, they have reached their engineering limits. There are also additional costs to companies whose production processes need reliable power, they cannot tolerate brownouts and have to install additional equipment to ensure uptime.

    In addition, generation capacity factors from wind (~20 to 33% on land, ~30 to 40% at sea) and solar (10%) are low, meaning sometimes there will have too much generation and other times not enough. Eirgrid must balance the grid to match supply and demand (50 Hz, inertia, reactive power etc.). Can't match the two without being able to rapidly spin up new generation sources, which means redundancy is needed.

    Consider how all this is priced. If you overbuild turbines and solar panels, investors are expecting return on investment (let's say 8% minimum yield meaning you get the payback over 12.5 years). This is low quality power generation it does not consistently match supply with demand, why should these generators command a premium price per KW unit supplied? Who is absorbing the costs of surplus generation? This is also translating into pricing instability, companies can see the next day weather forecast and bid or they can hold off. This has happened in Germany, where reliable generators have deemed the price offered not worthwhile, and there have been occasions when operator in Germany has had to get on the phone and beg coal generators to turn on. In the United Kingdom the wind turbine operators will not supply below cost either. You rightly conclude the customer sees no financial benefit, there is route to cheap power with renewables.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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