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Bit of a scam?

  • 07-01-2025 08:05PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭


    We've just had a load of work done on the house, full external insulation, new boiler, system and rads, attic insulation and composite door and the Ber came back as C1. A neighbours house just went up for sale with zero energy upgrades and an old wooden hall door and it has a C1 rating, can anyone explain how that's possible please? I hope there is a legit reason for it!

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,948 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    are the houses IDENTICAL?

    what independent information did you give the assessor for the C1 rating

    What was the before rating

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭youtheman


    Can you ask for the BER calculation spreadsheet?. If you have basic knowledge of Excel, and some idea of u-values, etc. then you can see what is driving the overall calculation and hence the rating.

    My brother bought a new house some time ago and I looked at the spreadsheet. I could see that the insulation in the attic was supposed to be 'x' cm (can't remember, but about double the height of the rafters). But I could see that it did not go higher than the rafters. I concluded then that 'paperwork never refused ink' and the BER process would not even pass a rudimentary QA/QC check.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,948 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    It's no longer a spreadsheet.

    So your allegation is that the BER was a fraud?

    So why didn't you do something about it rather than denigrate [aka pi$$ in on] the entire process and more importantly those of us who do it properly?

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭youtheman


    Cool your jets there!. I said I had the opportunity to look at one BER cert, and it didn't pass muster. So that particular cert could not be considered valid as far as I was concerned. And that's it. Fact. It wasn't my house anyway, so I had no skin in the game. If you do it properly then more power to you. Like all services, then will be a variation in the standard. On that particular occasion I found the standard to be extremely low (albeit in low sample).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,948 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    You do have skin in the game as you have a civic duty to call out this stuff.

    Re my jets, still T minus

    image.png

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭youtheman


    I don't have skin in the game. Not my house. I informed the home owner (my brother). It was up to him to follow up. 'Civic duty' is a bit strong eh!. But we digress anyway!. Back on topic (didn't mean to derail the OP here!).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Nope not identical, only one difference but it's a big one as my house is end of terrace and the other house is mid terraced. Ours is at the upper end of the C1 and theirs is at the lower end. We didn't get a ber done before the work which I don't understand. I just presumed they would do one. Is it possible to get "dodgy" certs? I just cannot see how these two houses have the same rating with the vast difference in all the energy upgrades. The other house has an ancient gas boiler and a big open fireplace

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Paper never refuses ink, and like all services, there is a variation in quality and standard, for different reasons. Plus sometimes genuine mistakes are made. People are human. I know of one person of property shall we say, he trialled 3 different BER people until he found one the best for him.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Like for like, end of terrace will fair worse than mid terrace due to more exposed walls.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,798 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    assuming a basic shape an 'end of terrace' could have 33% more exposed floor and 33% more exposed wall for heat loss. That is significant.

    its difficult to comment without seeing both BER assessments, but that alone COULD account for the same ratings.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Thats good to hear so, cheers, I might look into what it would take to get us that bit higher up into the b3 rating

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Screenshot_20250114_124123_Drive~2.jpg

    Thats what we got back

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,798 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Have you any open fires?

    Do you have a stat on your hot water cylinder? (Actually on the cylinder and not the pipes from it)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    No open fires, we got a new cylinder, boiler and rads with the hive hub running the heating and hot water. What exactly should be I be looking for on the cylinder?

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,798 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    can you take a picture of the cylinder for us?

    how many zone stats have you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Ill take a pic as soon as I'm home, we have a digital thermostat in the hall

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,798 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Yep

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    That any use?

    20250114_203203.jpg

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 quotelf
    Quotelf


    all that work seems like it would get a C1 , B3/2 at most. i wouldn't worry about the other house. maybe they already have insulation or new boiler, etc… for a1, you would need heat pumps, solar, etc, hope that helps!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭Static M.e.


    @Nigzcurran Just came across this post. Did you get an Advisory report with the BER cert? The one we have showed us what was good and bad in our house. This is only page 1 of the report but I found it very clear on what we needed to do.

    BER_Sample.JPG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    No we never got that, would be a great help to be honest. I'll try see if I can get it off them

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭Biker1


    Go to the SEAI national BER register and you can download your BER and advisory report using either your MPRN or BER number



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 quotelf
    Quotelf


    a terrace house is easier as it has 2 houses between it, an end of terrace, or semi-d , does not.

    maybe internal work done you did not see? or wrap around?

    maybe chimney was closed up?

    better windows,

    with 2 similar ber assessors, you might have i would think, a small difference maybe 1 / 2 ratings,

    if you have more info, supply it, to get more accuracy on this,

    Quotelf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Chasing high BER scores with big spends is a waste of money. It could be fine if you know the algorign and you do the jobs DIY, but really the main reason to implment energry saving measures is for yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Yes and no. Yes we insulated our house for ourselves but we were doing other work so the cost of the insulation was only itself. All other remedial work and decorating was being done anyway.

    Another thing to factor is green mortgages. We had ours valued and the agent assumed we were a D or something. He perked up when I said B1, he said that allows buyers obtain lower % rates and would add about €50k to our sale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I am in the process of decorating an ex rental for sale. Its a 3 bed semi+d house, built in the late 90's with a BER of C3.

    The house needs a lot of work and I am wondering if it's worth investing in energy upgrades for the potential of a better sales price. Is this something you would get back?

    I have contacted two companies about upgrades but they have not followed up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Considering you say "needs a lot of work" my gut says no. Sell it as is and be happy.

    You could add solar panels to aim to get a B rating but you would have to ask your agent if being a B2 over a C3 would have additional value.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Thanks The house is in a sought after estate, where properties rarely come up for sale..Auctioneers I have spoken to juat want to get it as is. They know it will have a lot of interest and is an easy sell. However, as owner, I would like to maximise its potential and sales price. I am prepared to invest in upgrades, up.to a point. Its very difficult to know what to put the money into to get trh best BER uplift

    I never thought of solar panels as a stand alone measure. I was thinking more insulation in the walls and attic maybe worth it, along with a new gas boiler to replace a 25yr old one. Would that increase the BER?

    Post edited by Kaisr Sose on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    You can check the advisory report which comes with every BER, this gives basic advice on how to increase the BER in a few key areas.

    Then do some calculations to see what needs doing to get to a B. Could be €10,000 at least for solar and new boiler so you'd want to be sure.



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