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Senior ministers concerned about effects of Occupied Territories Bill.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,210 ✭✭✭political analyst


    If the IDF campaign in Gaza was genocide then the Allied bombing of Germany in World War Two would've been genocide.

    Furthermore, in France in 1944, civilians were also killed in Allied air raids that were intended to destroy German forces, not terrorise French civilians - and France didn't accuse the US or the UK of crimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,066 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    You need to get on to all these agencies then and inform them of your thoughts on genocide -

    When you are finished we'll start on the War Crimes.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/12/6/who-accuses-israel-of-committing-genocide-in-gaza



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    The convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide came into force in the 1950's, so the law didn't exist during ww2, and was borne out of all the nihilistic destruction and death that occured - v few would come out of that war clean by terms of the convention.

    Nonetheless, what is happening in Israel is not akin to any of those things you mention, save that bombs are being used on civilians.

    There are no armies fighting here. There is no enemy fighting back in any meaningful way. Outside of Stalin and Hitler (possibly the two biggest mass murders of the 20th century), I'm not aware of other regimes who used starvation during ww2, as Israel is alleged to be doing now.

    It's not baseless in anyway that Israel's leaders are wanted for crimes against humanity and under extreme scrutiny by the ICJ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,210 ✭✭✭political analyst


    That doesn't prevent historians from referring to the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide as genocides.

    By the way, Israel is letting aid convoys enter Gaza - the convoys have to be checked to ensure that they're not bringing munitions in. You only see what Hamas wants you and other fools to see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,878 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    We asked to joined the case against Russia by the ICj. We have condemned Russia

    We also have supported sanctions against Russia. What sanctions are in place against Israel?

    How exactly have we treated Israel differently?

    The Russians did not like our criticism, but chose to keep their embassy in Ireland open. The Israelis chose to close theirs because they don't like being criticised for their war crimes. Be consistent; don't engage in political point scoring and try to deflect wrongdoing because of your own political leanings. Of course you will deny that's what you are up to, but we know that's exactly what you are up to, zerosquared.

    Post edited by nacho libre on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    How hard is it for you to denounce HAMAS for what they are genocidal Islamic numpties whom started a war for genocidal reasons



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    I’ve condemned Israel, what they done is beyond stupid

    Your turn to condemn genocidal Islamic terrorists

    Otherwise you endup highlighting the hypocrisy inherent to the Irish left whom I have exposed to be a bunch of loonies



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There is a sneaking regarder element in Ireland that has sympathy for Islamic terrorists because they take on the British and the Americans.

    What is most surprising to me is that among the many many posters on here demanding that Ireland put in place an OTB, there is isn't a single one calling for something that our government could actually do here in Ireland - intervene with our cricket board and tell them if they play Afghanistan (ruled by Islamic misogynists who have banned women from education and banned windows in kitchens), that they will withdraw funding for the National Cricket Centre.

    However, oppressed Islamic women and children are only a concern when they are being oppressed by Brit and American-loving Israelis.

    Poor old Robbie Keane gets hatemail for working in Israel, but our cricketers can play Afghanistan five times a year without a peep from the usual crowd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Yep frontpage news on BBC yesterday

    No mention of it here, just like no mention of much larger genocides being carried out by Arab Islamic nationalists

    It’s hard to take these people seriously when they refuse to denounce ideologies and terrorists who sworn to destroy our culture and way of life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    True, historians have put terms on things retrospectively.

    It still doesn't mean you should say that two things going on in completely different circumstances, different times, with different methods of war, huge differences in capabilities (not to mention the fact that one side doesn't have an army) are the same thing as the allies bombing German cities, and therefore what is happening couldn't be genocide.

    And are Hamas not a terrorist militia 'governing' a small strip of land in the middle east? Do you think a group of this size and of this persuasion are capable of duping the UN, the ICC, the ICJ, Amnesty, etc etc?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Whataboutism at its finest. And the claim in your first sentence is baseless. People are up in arms against Israel because they are committing war crimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    To be fair to the English, their cricket team is refusing to play Afghanistan in bilateral series, as are Australia.

    They have to play them at World Cups and the like because countries like Ireland don't support a wider boycott.

    The Irish played seven matches against Afghanistan last February and March, without a peep from anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,461 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The whole situation in the region has changed so quickly and fundamentally in Israel's favour because of the choice Hamas made on October 7th 2023.

    A very stupid choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,242 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    the first sentence isn’t at all baseless. Huge amount “fake” support in Ireland for Palestine because it’s seen as the big bad bad British (backing Israel) against the poor oppressed Palestinians.

    It’s as much an anti Britain stance as an anti Israel stance. Anti U.S. as well. These so called supporters wouldn’t last a wet week living under the Palestinians way of life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,066 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    You know well that I have denounced Hamas many times. But for the slow learners here it is again - '' Hamas are a murdering terrorist organisation that has done nothing for it's people''.

    Now then what opinion have you of things like this?

    https://news.sky.com/story/im-so-scared-please-come-heartbreaking-final-moments-of-girl-5-killed-in-gaza-13229813



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭TokTik


    The crimes you mentioned were brought in explicitly BECAUSE of what happened to civilians in WWII.

    Did the Nazis have the “right to defend themselves” after the Warsaw ghetto uprising??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,066 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The amount of deflecting on this thread is only matched by the amount of whataboutery. It's laughable really. They have clearly ran out of excuses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,998 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It's actually unreal. I can't get my head around it. The mindset required to validate/ignore the war crimes in Gaza is simply beyond me. A lot of irrelevant waffle too.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    A girl, according to BBC news article only a few posts up Islamists don’t even view females as human

    like I said in our culture these are tragedies including this story

    in the culture and religion of these Islamics on other hand they treat half the population as subhuman

    The problem for Palestinians is that what their HAMAS representatives started on 7th October has pushed the Israelis so far to the extreme right, that they don’t longer care about what the rest of the world thinks

    It’s quite clear Israelis stopped giving a **** about what we think, we don’t have to live next to people whose stated aims are genocide



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    Irish Times today (or yesterday) on above. I favour myself a more pragmatic approach and less of the moral self indulgence.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/01/12/pat-leahy-battles-lines-have-been-drawn-on-the-occupied-territories-bill/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,461 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    How angry are you at what Hamas has brought upon the Palestinian people?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,998 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It reminds me of the Public Sector Standards bill from 2015. It was brought in to tackle corruption after various scandals and RTE Investigates but the FG govt didn't have the balls to pass it so they put it into an endless review cycle and then shelved it. New Politics was dead.

    How long is this one in review ?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    The irony of this sentence...

    in the culture and religion of these Islamics on other hand they treat half the population as subhuman

    ..when you are, for whatever reason, continue to use Islamist terrorism as a reason to view innocent civilians being murdered in Gaza as somehow not worthy of any concern, and somehow to blame for their predicament. In doing this, you yourself are treating them as less than human, so your no better than the islamic fundamentalists you are so obviously pretending to bemoan.

    Anyone who shows concern are given a hundred and one reasons why they shouldn't, or why they are wrong to, or that they are virtue signalling or whatever horsesh*t reason or whatsboutery you pull out of thin air to try to get people to ignore what is going on.

    FFS you set up a thread on another genocide not because you give 2 f's about it, but to bring attention away from this one. It is bizarre.

    Why do you care this this war has gotten people's back up in Ireland, so much so that your are appearing in some roundabout way to defend genocide (which you so casually called "stupidity" on Israel's part in a previous post)? It's a pretty extreme position to take.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Thanks, but honestly I don't need to read it, I am well aware of th different war crimes there are. I have no doubt that Israel have committed war crimes. I also know enough to know that all sides in all wars commit war crimes.

    I do not condone any war crimes. Committed by anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,998 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    You didn't answer any of my questions on the "war".

    You may not want to read it, but how's about letting the international press into Gaza? How many wars can you remember where the international press was banned? How's about letting all the aid in? How's about rebuilding the basic infrastructure (electricity, water, hospitals etc??

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    The questions about Hamas? I don't know is the answer. I do know this war didn't just start 18 months ago. This is an ongoing conflict over decades, it's not just a simple one side good the other side bad war.

    And I have no issue with press or aid getting into Gaza, why would I?

    Maybe if they had have spent some of the money they received over the last 20 years in some infrastructure of their own, they might have an airport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,998 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Oh right. Given that the Israeli blockade of Gaza since 2007 included a huge list of construction material, an airport would have been very difficult. Israel wouldn't have allowed it in any event. Gaza was already crumbling. Also hard to build when Israel cut off electricity for many hours of the day. I suggest you read up on the Blockade of the Gaza Strip.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Spare me the fake crocodile tears

    I have illustrated quite clearly that Israel is living rent free in the Irish Lefts heads not because they actually care about genocide and attrocities

    But because there is an easily illustrated anti semitic, pro Islamist/terrorist, and quite possibly racist angle

    This is the last I’m going to comment on the subject, both sides in this conflict are worse than each other but the hypocritical left here are just plain sad to have latched onto a “cause” that has such questionable roots



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Ah yes a cause of not wanting war crimes to continue. What a sad lot we are to be against that.



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