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Forming the next Irish Government - policies and personalities

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Housing standards are irrelevant. They will always improve. People can't find the bloody houses at all now, that's the point.

    Housing standards is whataboutery from you. I built my own house in 2001 and the building regs have completely changed since then, so what.

    We can discuss how the retrofit project has completely failed in a separate thread.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,967 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    They are not irrelevant. You could not rent a three-bedroomed house or bigger in Dublin in the 1980s, all that was available was bedsits and a small number of apartments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Ah stop, you're all over the place. Why don't you provide a link to that nugget. Dublin was no different to Galway in 80s in terms of supply. The papers were full of landlords looking for tenants. I was living in Dublin in early 90s and I had my choice of rental accommodation.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Caquas


    There are many other threads to discuss housing, past and present. This is a thread about the next Government. By all means comment here on what housing policy it should adopt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    They should adopt what they promised. 60k a year and stop messing about.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,178 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    they wont, as its not possible to increase the supply that quickly, they will proceed with the approaches that have been tried and failed in previous governments, pushing the problem into the 30's, whereby it ll probably just be much worse!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Oh I know that. It will be another epic fail by FFG. They both promised the same thing though and they cannot blame Independents.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,178 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    dont worry, they will, so dont be surprised of another ffg government after the current one, and the continual failures, over and over again…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    The housing market is crazy at present, I wouldn't like to be in that mix right now.

    I fear that no govt can take control of it now, FF fd it up for local authority housing by their approach to it in the early 00s, and its too damned expensive for them to get back into it in any meaningful way. It's now a developer/corporate driven market with heavy profits the driving force.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Eamon Ryan calls out the FF/FG negotiators on climate but he is reading a lot into a couple of sentences from Monday's IT report.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/01/08/eamon-ryan-political-science-cant-trump-climate-science-here-are-4-key-tests-for-the-new-government/

    Or did Eamon get insider feedback from the "senior officials" who, according to the IT, briefed the FF/FG negotiators on climate policy options. Surely civil servants are not feeding information from these talks to the Opposition?

    He references the election exit poll which showed 51% of people believed that "the current Government has not gone far enough" on climate. This may be evidence that people want the next Government to take stronger measures on climate. Or it may be another example of the disconnect between what people tell pollsters and which candidates get their votes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Caquas


    And at least one media commentator has the gumption to call out the "rotating Taoiseach" nonsense.

    A fair case could be made for it in 2020 when the parties were closely matched and it was probably necessary to sell the historic FF/FG coalition to their respective party members But it serves no valid purpose now and it will entrench a dangerous precedent. It diminishes the Office of Taoiseach, especially internationally, though not quite as limp as our annually-rotating Mayors who are bossed by the Local Authority CEOs.

    It also guarantees a mid-term moment of political drama which could be seriously damaging in a crisis. Will any major party ever again go into coalition without getting dibs on the top job?

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/fionnan-sheahan-rotating-taoiseach-malarkey-serves-no-interests-other-than-simon-harriss-ego/a1633701896.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,967 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Eh, technically, as Eamon is still the relevant Minister, those "senior officials" report directly to him. A much simpler explanation than a bizarre conspiracy theory of civil servants feeding information to the opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Ahhh!!! You have a point which is more than technical and which adds to my concerns.

    As one of the Ministers who was constitutionally obliged to resign a month ago but who must "continue to carry on their duties until their successors shall have been appointed", Eamon Ryan is warning that FF/FG may weaken some of the key elements of Ireland's existing national climate plan.

    Fair enough.

    But if he being informed about FF/FG negotiations by "senior officials" from his Department who briefed the FF/FG negotiators, there is a serious issue of civil service ethics, particularly the requirement for political impartiality. No one in FF/FG has said anything about weakening the national climate plan and the IT report makes no such claim so Eamon Ryan is either engaged in baseless speculation or he has inside information on confidential political negotiations. If from Departmental officials, there will be blowback and rightly so.

    We must assume we are talking about the Minister and former Green Party leader, because the IT, weirdly and contrary to its practice, does not give any information about the writer of this opinion piece.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,967 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Again, technically, if a "senior official" of a Department is asked to brief the Taoiseach, another Minister, or a TD outside of government, his Minister is entitled firstly to decide whether such a briefing is permitted, the contents of the briefing and finally, to receive a report on the briefing. Contact in government is Minister to Minister, adviser to adviser and official to official, if a Minister wants something directly from an official of another Department (other than as part of an inter-departmental group, or some other formal process), then that kind of permission is required.

    If the political parties, acting as political parties want to keep negotiations confidential, they don't include civil servants who have a responsibility to report to their own Minister who isn't part of the negotiations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,052 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes, good to see the absurdity of the rotating Taoiseach being called out. Also good to see the dalliance with Lowry being called out too and feet otherwise planted on the high moral ground held to the flame over it. Just reading there, Lowry was in his 40's when he committed his 'profound corruption', in his mid 50's when the Tribunal found him guilty and the file is only now being sent to the DPP, when he is in his 70's.~
    Great wee country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Do you (or Xofod) have any specific basis for your assertions or are you simply assuming that the general civil service rules apply to this most exceptional situation i.e. to senior officials who were advising political parties during negotiations on the incoming Government's programme where the officials' Minister has resigned (and is no longer a member of the Oireachtas) and his party will be in Opposition?

    I think it is clearly in the public interest that public servants should give the negotiators their expert advice but I disagree with you about the applicable rules. Surely it would be unethical for a Minister in these circumstances to send officials to these highly confidential negotiations among his (now) political opponents and then demand a full de-briefing. I see no valid counter-argument from public policy -whose interests are served if public servants inform their (acting) Minister on negotiations which will have no policy effect during the Minister's period in office? The only direct benefit would be to the (acting) Minister who could use such information immediately to promote his own agenda, in opposition to the future Government.

    Of course we don't know the full facts in this case but that hasn't stopped you yet and I am only asking 🤔



  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Difficult for SF to exploit the situation given what they have done in the past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭pureza


    population of 3 million,un bridaled emigration and a 60% marginal tax rate

    Of course there were no issues securing social housing! Sure my student accommodation as a private renter in D4 was 12 quid a week….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,052 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    My point has nothing to do with what Lowry 'done', it has to do with high moral ground grandstanding by FF FG when it suits the powerplaying.

    They're 'ating grass' as they would say around here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,967 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/finance/2009/09.pdf

    "22. Civil servants may give technical briefings to Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas on request in a variety of contexts, ranging from briefings for individual members representing the interest of constituents, to group briefings on complex national policy issues. Attendance at such meetings should only occur where the Secretary General or Head of Office considers it appropriate. However, all Ministers have been advised that office holders should not request civil servants to conduct briefings in settings such as parliamentary party meetings, constituency branch meetings or similar type meetings."

    Essentially, such briefings are on request of their Minister, with the approval of their Secretary General. If I am requesting something to be done, it is perfectly normal for me to ask how it went. Even though the Minister has resigned and is carrying on in a caretaker position, he still has a duty to ensure that the Official Secrets Act and other legislation is not breached.

    At the very least he would also get a copy of the briefing been given. That could in itself be enough. For example, if the negotiators asked for briefing on the effect of moving from a 2:1 ratio public transport to roads, to a 1:1 ratio, that would be sufficient to enable Eamon Ryan to say what he said, without having knowledge of the subsequent discussions.



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  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Morally speaking, going into government with SF would be far worse than with Lowry. Nobody could objectively say otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,967 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are absolutely correct.

    Corrupt acquisition of money (without a conviction) versus blowing innocent people to bits (with a conviction). In that choice I would hold my nose and pick the former.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,052 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not the point. I accept you may be desperate to change the point, but work away on your own.



  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What is your point? Going into government with Lowry means they can no longer what exactly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,052 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's there in my post:

    Also good to see the dalliance with Lowry being called out too and feet otherwise planted on the high moral ground held to the flame over it.

    If you don't think they are doing a moral three card trick, we have nothing to discuss I suppose.



  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's a pity alright but FF going into power with SF is exponentially worse, morally speaking. So at least they haven't sunk that low.

    I take it you have no problem with the ethics of Lowry in government as you are ok with SF going into government? Your issue is what you perceive as hypocrisy from FF ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,052 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They will use tge exact same language about going into government with whoever they need to keep them in power.

    That’s clear as mud if it wasn’t before. You are being conned if you think it’s a moral stance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,967 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The reality is that Fianna Fail has two choices, going in with the regional independents or bringing SF to the table. All others have ruled themselves out.

    Let us put aside the real policy differences, let us put aside the silly SF obsession with a united Ireland, the higher moral ground in that choice is siding with the regional independents. Even the most superficial review of the situation would conclude that.

    Amazing that anyone who would support SF going into government has a problem with Lowry being there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,052 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Don’t alter what I said.
    The point is about FF FG hypocrisy and the ‘moral’ lies they are selling and are being bought by some.
    Who they share power with has nothing to do with morals.

    The more astute of us and the media saw that when MM found the language to open the door to SF in 2020



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭Good loser


    You're wrong there. It was SF that promised 60k houses a year and they were rejected.



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