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Roads budget with the new gov

13

Comments

  • #62
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,957 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123024478#Comment_123024478

    Confirmation the Greens were acting the boll!x and obstructing on road infrastructure despite having agreed a 2:1 split in favour of public transport.



  • #63
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Ring roads for all our ring roads!



  • #64
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,340 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025268#Comment_123025268

    That's one I really can't see being resurrected, very expensive for little benefit. It would go against all National and European policies as it would purely be to facilitate car commuting.



  • #65
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123027119#Comment_123027119

    What's the polite way to just say nope to that. Barring a metro is ever built in Limerick, you need a way around the place. North of city is mental these days. No train or bus service will fix this.



  • #66
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025545#Comment_123025545

    To be fair, the only ring roads for ring roads being proposed are in Killarney, Cork North, Rathkeale, Wexford, Galway, Longford and Monaghan Town.



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  • #67
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122927048#Comment_122927048

    One billion, was and is, an utter irrelevance pf a sum to our government, in the way that one euro is irrelevant to you... what's the cost of delaying all of these projects? Billions and billions...



  • #68
    breezy1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,234 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025268#Comment_123025268

    Can't see Moyross to UL ever happening. Too many well healed NIMBY's in Parteen and around the back of UL.



  • #69
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123028061#Comment_123028061

    I'd just like to say that I appreciate the humour in this comment. I'm not sure if others will get the subtlety so I wanted to point it out.

    And back to being serious again, I'm not sure if FF really have a fully thought-out transport policy to be honest. I suspect they'll go wherever the votes are with local effects, rather than having transport as a core party all-island "ideology" per se. In that regard I'd nearly rather FG get Transport, because they seemed to have had a more comprehensive transport manifesto.

    We probably dodged the first bullet with Verona Murphy getting Ceann Comhairle though.



  • #70
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123028578#Comment_123028578

    Seems from reading the media reports on coalition talks so far that there isn't going to be a substantial downgrade of any sort of PT related investment. FF have made strong gains in Dublin in the last election and they're not going to throw that away. Remember that the Govt have 21 TDs between them in Dublin and 10 in Kildare/Meath/Wicklow. It's a nice balance to have. The 2:1 ratio will hopefully be kept even if it's just symbolic.

    What will go out the window is futile urinating on the roads programme in the name of empty virtue signalling gestures.



  • #71
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123028614#Comment_123028614

    Yep I think the same, maybe we're both being overly optimistic but I hope not.

    Transport is kind of in the sweet spot at the moment in that it's people's 5th or 6th priority, so people want money spent on it, but also it's not the very top priority, so people aren't heavily entrenched in ideology.

    I think the 2:1 will be kept too, and as you say that'll be symbolic.

    One big thing the last government did that people might not have noticed is that many LA roads departments and even the NTA and TII were upskilled massively on sustainable transport infrastructure design over the last few years. I'd be optimistic that means that the future proposed road future infrastructure is of good quality. Most designs we see nowadays are so much better than even 5 years ago. I still shudder to think of Little Island narrowing the footpaths, to fit in another general traffic lane, that was 2019 or something.



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  • #72
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123028645#Comment_123028645

    If anything there's probably been a slight bit of a Streisand effect with the roads that Ryan held up. They'd have quietly gone nowhere had he just given lip service to them. There'll be a certain pressure to "undo the Green damage" now.

    The thing about transport is that most people never make the connection between transport and housing. Meeting our housing targets would be significantly easier if Metrolink, Cork Commuter rail, Galway commuter rail, DART+ were in place to service those lovely green fields the houses will be going in. For that reason alone, PT projects will continue to advance.



  • #73
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,387 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123025545#Comment_123025545

    One more lane should do it.



  • #74
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123028738#Comment_123028738

    Well that's the kind of short-termist thinking that got us in this mess in the first place. We need FOUR more lanes each way, and a three-lane frontage road either side!

    @marno21 , @hans aus dtschl - Agree completely with both points: FF having no transport policy (they never did), and the likely retention of the 2:1 ratio.

    Regarding the “Steissand Effect”, most of the publicity for those projects being deferred came from “sources” within county councils or the back benches of FF,FG and yes, even the Greens. There’s politicians of all parties who just can’t see a back without reaching for a knife.



  • #75
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I suspect that the 2:1 ratio might be dropped because of it’s connection with the Greens, but effectively it will be maintained or even increased.

    I don’t see any appetite to actually drop any of the major PT projects (Metrolink/dart+), etc. and they are so much larger and more expensive then any of the remaining roads projects, that if they go ahead you’d effectively end up with that ratio or even much wider ratio.

    Other then the m20, the rest of the roads projects are relatively small and should be relatively affordable, at least compared to Metrolink, etc.

    The government coffers are awash with money and I think both FF and FG know that the public are feed up of seeing little or nothing being built over the last 10 years and that the next 5 years of government will need to be seen as a government of action and actually building projects, both roads and PT, if they want to get reelected in 5 years time.



  • #76
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,340 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The next government should announce a 3:1 ratio of PT:roads. Say they will deliver on climate change commitments while also investing in roads. That doesn't require doing anything different than what is already in motion but could broaden their support.



  • #77
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,051 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123024478#Comment_123024478

    Great stuff. Now we see the nonsense the greens were at



  • #78
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,957 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The next government will be “ambitious on public transport and roads”, a figure involved in drafting the deal said. “There won’t be as many cycle lanes built, that’s for sure,” they added. “It’ll be about big picture stuff now.”

    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2025/01/14/regional-independent-group-strikes-deal-with-fine-gael-and-fianna-fail-on-formation-of-next-government/



  • #79
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Looks like Sean Canney will be a junior minister at Transport. Good news for schemes in Galway



  • #80
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,957 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The process for approving and building roads is to be overhauled according to the Programme for Government. The Irish Times says this is after the Greens were accused of intentionally abusing the system to stall projects.

    (hardly an accusation when it was obvious)



  • #81
    Compo82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86 ✭✭Compo82


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123056858#Comment_123056858

    Great stuff, hopefully some badly needed schemes will be progressed under this government.



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  • #82
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,751 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Multiannual funding is on the way!

    Roads investment
    The Government will invest in all
    road projects in the current National
    Development Plan and consider additional
    important road projects as part of the NDP
    review.


    This Government will:


    • Provide multi-annual funding clarity for
    roads budgets so agencies can plan
    accordingly.
    • Increase funding for new roads as part of
    the NDP review and the maintenance of
    existing roads.
    • Increase funding for the protection and
    renewal of the road network to address
    maintenance backlogs.
    • Establish distinct budgets for road
    maintenance and new road construction
    starting in 2025 to ensure sustained
    investment in the network.
    • Fund a matching road maintenance
    catch up programme for local authorities
    with poor pavement surface conditions
    and utilise advanced imaging technology
    to expedite repairs.
    • Continue to progress construction of
    the Narrow Water Bridge and support
    the local authorities on both sides of the
    bridge in developing the new tourism
    opportunities it will bring.
    • Improve connectivity with the
    Northwest by working with the Northern
    Ireland Executive to deliver the A5
    road upgrade. Further enhance road
    connectivity to and from the North-West.
    • Provide additional funding for the Local
    Improvement Scheme and Community
    Involvement Schemes (CIS).
    • Progress the digital solution to replace
    the paper discs on vehicle windscreens.



  • #83
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,835 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I hope this marks a new era in road building and the rest of the network crying out for bypasses and upgrading finally gets seen to- most of these projects have been talked about for decades and are basic “must haves” in terms of road safety and efficiency. I’m delighted this seems to be a big part of the new government programme



  • #84
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,293 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123057357#Comment_123057357

    Galway bypass, what else? The N17 upgrade?



  • #85
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    A relief road of Claregalway wouldn't surprise me, Noel Grealish has been on about it over the years. My guess would be the Galway Ring Road above all others, with the Athenry-Claremorris railway and Claregalway relief roads following on. Probably a rapid end to the clownshow on the N59 west of Oughterard also.



  • #86
    Westernview
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Westernview


    It's seems very unclear to me what emphasis the government will have when it comes to infrastructure. A number of posters here are delighted that there will be a flurry of road building at the expense of the previous preference of the Greens for public transport. But we are signed up to major reductions in carbon reduction and we will get fined billions if we fail to meet this. I don't see the emphasis shifting as much as people think. And I say this as someone who would like to see a lot of road projects progressed that have been stalled or downgraded.

    Post edited by Westernview on


  • #87
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061113#Comment_123061113

    Road building will not be at the expense of public transport. This is even stated in the Programme for Government. There's enough money budgeted for both. It's just we now have a Minister for Transport who isn't a) completely disinterested in his job (2016-2020) or b) has an ideological fixation against road construction regardless of merit (2020-next week).

    There will be no real shifting of emphasis. Public transport projects (that are hugely important - Metrolink, DART+, Cork ART, regional BusConnects) will proceed, as they should. Roads should also proceed, as outlined in the NDP. The sums required for PT projects will dwarf the amount spent on a number of regionally important road schemes.

    As for fines, good luck with that. A brief look at politics in Europe and the viability of any real enforcement of fines will appear quite fanciful.



  • #88
    Westernview
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Westernview


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061152#Comment_123061152

    Brushing off the threat of fines is nice tough talk but in reality isn't gonna cut it. Even if they were never paid (and I doubt that's a serious option) we have to make serious attempts at carbon reduction. We would lose a lot of credibility as a nation in terms of our obligations towards addressing climate change. Anyone thinking it's problem solved with the Greens removed is pretty naive. The climate doesn't care who is in charge.



  • #89
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061190#Comment_123061190

    We do have to make serious attempts at carbon reduction, and we are. But we have to also accept that just because we set arbitrary targets, set by politicians who won't be in office to actually take the measures to meet them, doesn't mean we'll be able to successfully meet them. We have to be realistic about how we can achieve decarbonisation without causing economic damage or hurting peoples lives to the extent that they vote for right wing parties who end up undoing any measures to decarbonise.

    Not sure about our credibility. We're not standing out around the world for being bad at addressing climate change. We do have higher than average emissions in certain sectors but we also have world leading sectors in some high emissions industries (for example beef and dairy) where if we took drastic actions to remove those emissions they'd be substituted around the world with equivalent products from higher emission countries with bad side effects (e.g. Irish beef subsituted with Brazillian beef).

    I'm not sure what the comment about the Greens relates to. The PfG commits to substantial climate action. It commits to offshore wind, substantial PT + AT investment etc, all of which the Greens waxed lyrical about but didn't deliver a whole pile.



  • #90
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,751 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061190#Comment_123061190

    If the PfG didn't specifically mention decarbonisation of the economy multiple times you might have a point.

    In transport alone it commits to all the major PT projects currently underway and promises more are on the way. It commits to continue the electrification of the rail and bus fleets.

    It promises the roll out of significant EV charging network, new incentives for the pruchase of EVs (something that Ryan had reduced and then denied it was the reason for the 25% reduction in new EV sales last year) and tax breaks on the import of second hand EVs.

    It promises increased investment in Active Travel, greenways and blueways.

    Increasing the roads budget is not in any way going to affect decarbonisation targets.



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  • #91
    Westernview
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Westernview


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061293#Comment_123061293

    Your first paragraph suggests that the Green Party set a random target knowing they wouldn't have to deal with it which isn't true. They didnt run away, they were voted out. They would have fully intended returning to government to continue this push.

    Having to be 'realistic' is quite vague and often used as a counter argument to Green policy. Going back to my original point the situation will still have to be dealt with or without the greens. I don't see where the resources are to ramp up road construction so much that the greater emphasis on public transport can be maintained. To repeat I'd like to see more roads but the priority is supposedly to build houses and invest in public transport. From a manpower and carbon reduction commitment that seems incredibly challenging. I look forward to being proved wrong.



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