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Would GAA (football) solve a lot of its problem if it had a single, proper championship?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    But even if they did all that. Or say they had been doing it since 2010. It wouldn't have made any difference to the competition. Seeding the top two performers on opposite sides wouldn't have improved the quality, or got the fans and players excited again. The Leinster Championship would continue to be the absolute shambles it is today. Maybe the lower-ranked teams would be less likely to make pre-QF stage of the All-Ireland but that's a minor issue and is not really solving much with what is wrong with the current format. Easier and better to just scrap the Provincials entirely and come with something new rather than make doomed attempts to tinker around the edges with the shambles that is the Leinster Championship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    The provincial championships are not going anywhere anytime soon. Mayo, Galway and Roscommon finished in the top 3 in Division 1 a few years ago. All 3 were on one side of the Connacht draw. The Connacht final was deprived of a fitting final.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 334 ✭✭Charlo30


    I'd scrap the Provinicals. Expand the League to home and away matches. Top 15 and Tailteann Cup winners qualify for Sam Maguire the rest play in the Tailteann Cup. Straight knock out from then. Either open draw or seed it, for example number 1 seeded team plays number 16 and so on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Again you continue to ignore the fact that the Munster Championship is an absolute shambles 😏🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    I think that's a defeatist attitude. They can absolutely be scrapped if there is the will to do so. Better to do it sooner rather than later before interest in the game drops, because when it does, it might never recover. The fact Mayo, Galway and Roscommon are decent teams in one small Province makes the contrast with the shambles that is the Leinster Championship even more stark! That's more of an argument to be getting rid of them than retaining them in my view. The main problem is with Leinster of course- it's the least competitive province by far and as we can't just scrap one province, we have to get rid of them all.

    Seeding would help a bit but it doesn't really tackle the root causes of the drop in decline and will reduce the chances of smaller counties winning a Province (one of the only good reasons for keeping them). Best to just scrap them entirely and try something new.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Again this is pure nonsense , Munster is as much a shambles as Leinster , one County has dominated Munster for over a Century , making it the least competitive province by far !! 85 TITLES = an absolute shambles .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    More reality than defeatist. People with more influence have suggested starting with provincial championships and league next.

    Clare have to beat Tipperary or Waterford next year to qualify for the All Ireland series. Down missed out on the All Ireland because of that this year. Meath last year missed out on the All Ireland because Sligo beat London and New York. Provincial finals are being devalued by such lopsided draws.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Glad you accept that the Leinster Championship is a shambles, I definitely agree with you there. What exactly about my post is nonsense though? Are you seriously going to claim that the Leinster Championship isn't in a dire state, and that interest and participation is dropping year on year? It's the least competitive province these days, by far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    And other people with influence have suggested abolishing the Provincials. Arguments should stand on their own merits, I know some people accept arguments from authority but to me, they should speak for themselves, it doesn't matter who makes them.

    Btw I don't think the Provincials are being devalued by the draws you mentioned- Maybe the All-Ireland is, but the teams playing in the Provincials don't care, especially if you can eke out a win, like Tipperary did in Munster in 2020. An unlikely win like that is more or less impossible in Leinster now though. And what really devalues the Provincials is loss of interest, competitiveness, prestige, integrity and participation as is happening in the Leinster Championship. It's somewhat of a shame, as tradition is important in sport but as the Leinster Championship is beyond saving, it needs to be abolished- and if one goes, they probably all should, at least as far as they play into the All-Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Are you seriously going to claim the Munster Championship isn't in a dire state ? and the interest is dropping year on year ? Its 100% the least competitive province and has been for over 100 years , 85 Munster titles for one County is total dominance and absolutely ridiculous , so yes your post is pure nonsense!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Ah the same old rubbish over and over again , 14 years of this nonsense ,prestige , integrity competitiveness in Leinster

    The same has been happening in Munster for over 100 years , 85 Munster titles from one County , the Munster title is beyond saving .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,449 ✭✭✭windy shepard henderson


    it was there on a number of times but people like Davey fitz and whoever saw it as an opportunity over their opponents by sprinting up mountains then relaxing , players will do anything to get an extra edge , until a s/c coach tells a player to take a break or relax for a week or two , its all business



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Just a thought, don't shoot the messenger

    Step 1 - Scrap the league to save 7 games per team

    Step 2 - Munster and Connacht Provincial Championships merge with New York into two divisions of 6 teams, as do Leinster and Ulster Championships and London and Kilkenny into two divisions of 11

    Munster/Connacht counties play double round robin fixtures for 10 games each with the top 4 playing semis

    Leinster/Ulster teams play single round robin fixtures for 10 games with the top 4 playing semis

    Highest ranking counties by province are declared the provincial champions

    Step 3 - Winners of Munster/Connacht play winners of Leinster/Ulster for the Sam McGuire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    Scrap the league? It's the best competition that gaelic football has.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    That would be interesting alright , and maybe rotate the provinces every 2-3 years to keep it interesting , merge Leinster and Munster , Connaught and Ulster etc .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The competition I describe would take on the role of a league in many respects but my reason for ditching it would be more relatable to player welfare

    I don't think that's wise, keep the pools the same, or at least similar, and you foster rivalries and get improved ticket sales at the gates year-on-year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Disagree the rivalries are already there , rotating the provinces would keep everyone interested and improve ticket sales , also would be the fairest way to go for all Counties .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Ideally you want counties facing off against their neighbouring counties as often as possible to drive the rivalries along. Now would Waterford v Wexford be better than Waterford V Mayo or Wexford V Donegal in that respects? Sure, but you can't please everybody



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    In the interest of fairness , rotating provinces in my opinion would be the way to go, or has been mentioned many times an open draw 32 Counties .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    An open draw every year could work as well. It's the rugby champions cup format back when it was a good competition

    It would be 33 counties though if you included London, NY and excluded Kilkenny



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Briefly. Bring back the qualifiers. Seeded draws and byes determined by league ranking. Adjusted slightly depending on the progress of the Tailteann winner getting to their provincial final or not.

    PROVINCIAL ROUND 1: (18 teams)

    Leinster and Ulster preliminary round

    Connacht and Munster quarter finals

    PROVINCIAL ROUND 2: (24 teams)

    Leinster and Ulster quarter finals

    Connacht and Munster semi finals

    PROVINCIAL ROUND 3: (8 teams)

    Leinster and Ulster semi finals

    PROVINCIAL ROUND 4: (8 teams)

    Leinster and Ulster finals

    Connacht and Munster finals

    ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 1: (9 teams)

    9 provincial round 1 losers. Highest from league given bye to Q2.

    ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 2: (17 teams)

    12 provincial round 2 losers and 5 Q1 winners. Highest provincial round 2 loser given bye to Q3.

    ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 3: (13 teams)

    4 provincial round 3 losers and 9 Q2 winners. 3 highest provincial round 3 losers given bye to All Ireland series.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    While the 2001 to 2017 setup was definitely preferable to Super 8/Group stage setups, I don't think that alone will be enough by this stage. It still leaves intact the absolute shambles that is the Leinster Championship which nobody wants. The interest just isn't there anymore for it. Any reforms need to take this state of affairs into account and take steps to address it.

    We also need rule changes to the game itself but in terms of the championship structure, supporters want fewer, but higher-quality games. They want games to be more consequential. They want them to be more competitive. All of these issues are helped significantly by reforms that ensure the Leinster Championship no longer exists as part of the All Ireland Championship, whatever the new structure is- whether open-draw, based off the NFL etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Again you ignore that Munster is an absolute shambles and has been for over 100 years , there is zero interest in it and any reforms need to address this mess once and for all !!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    It is all well and good suggesting to cut the provincial link to the All Ireland. Just cannot see it getting the required support at Congress. In the absence of that, I merely suggested balanced provincial draws based on league ranking. At least that way there might be deserving finalists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,100 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    First of all, any suggestions that result in >10% LESS matches are pipedreams. Too much revenue potentially gonna be thrown away for the GAA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Pipedreams alright. Bringing in qualifiers based on league ranking within the current format would actually add games for teams lying idle after provincial knockout, and also a bit of jeopardy for the likes of Monaghan and Roscommon who were relegated from Division 1 and suffered no jeopardy from being knocked out of their provincial championship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    I agree it seems like a non-starter but without doing it, the issues of declining participation, interest, crowds etc. won't be fixed. There are other issues of course e.g. the kinds of tactics employed nowadays that are not good to watch, but the GAA is at least taking some measures to try and address those. But without addressing the shambles that is the Leinster Championship, we are still left with a massive elephant in the room that is contributing to the declining interest. And if we rightly want to scrap the Leinster Championship given the state of it, then we will have to scrap all of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,858 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Your'e still banging that drum? 32 county open draw won't bring in the revenue as simple as that. It is not logical nor practical. For a start 33 teams currently play the football championship!

    The changes to the championship are gradually happening (at last) being linked with the league. Eventually the two will merge. The reason why the GAA have to it this bit by bit way, is because it way too overly democratic and conservative.

    The league is still the best tournament by far.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 334 ✭✭Charlo30


    I'm intrigued. Considering your concern for what is the "shambles" of the Leinster Championship. Do you have any ideas to fix it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,858 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    If I remember correctly yer man’s suggestion was splitting dublin as many times as possible. Poster is not keen on smaller counties merging though! Also ignores “shambles” of Munster.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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