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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    You asked me to list the physical evidence and I listed them, and I said you were dismissing it. Where is the strawman?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    Physical evidence is not necessary for suspicion.

    I haven't accused Bailey at any point.

    Maybe learn to differentitate the two.

    I gave solid reasons for why Bailey is a very good suspect in this crime. Thats why I entered the thread, knowing that he fits a certain profile consistent with the crime, I gave reasons for why he makes a good suspect.

    People are always going to suspect him, and he'll remain the chief suspect by far, with very good reason.

    If you have a problem with that then maybe offer up a better suspect, contribute a better theory, or a better something, enlighten the public. I dont think you can. I think you have nothing new of any value to add, or anything in any way convincing to offer.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    The male who leaves DNA on a murder victim is generally the chief suspect in almost all murders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks


    I don't see the value in speculation based on gossip and pub talk, which is most of the circumstantial evidence against Bailey. It's so easy to dismiss.

    No, I won't join you in conjuring up a suspect. Not without sufficient evidence. All we know is that none of the hard evidence points to Bailey. But you cannot accept it.

    Also, I can't believe I have to say this *again*, but I believe that a high standard of evidence is required when accusing someone of murder. That is the most logical position to take.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    If you are not aware there was unknown male DNA found on Sophie's person, which is confirmed as not being from Bailey, or any members of her family.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,842 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I note that Sophies father, Georges Bouniol, has died in Paris...

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sophie-toscan-du-plantiers-father-dies-in-paris-aged-98/a196896567.html

    May he rest in peace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    Of course I can accept a lack of evidence against Bailey.

    Maybe you can remember that I have at no point accused him of a crime.

    I came here to point out an indisputable consistency between the crime and Baileys psychology.

    Its not a speculation. Its a verifiable truth.

    Your position is illogical because you can't accept that.

    Or you confuse it with an accusation.

    Look carefully now. And dont add to this or take away from it.

    Bailey was a malignant narcissist, a thankfully rare condition, and the crime which happened in his community is in line with his disorder.

    Thats all.

    Thats it. You cannot debate it. You cannot deny it. You cannot trick or game your way around it.

    You will live with this fact (and it is a fact) now.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks


    More pub talk and gossip. I'm growing weary of this. I've already made myself clear. If you have nothing to say about the actual evidence at hand I'd ask you to stop responding to me, thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    I thought you may be suggesting a type of dna.

    i.e. semen.

    In the case of a sexual homicide by criminals with certain psychological disorders they can still fulfil the sexual motive without orgasm.

    (i believe baileys condition is one such disorder).

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    May he rest in peace, and a tragedy that he never got to see justice for Sophie in his lifetime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Come back once you have established that DNA was deposited on the shoe on the night Sophie was murdered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    No. Its not gossip. Court professionals established as much. And it formed part of his conviction in the French courts.

    "Ian Bailey was a man with “narcissistic and megalomaniac traits” and a “sexual inclination” who most likely killed Sophie Tuscan Du Plantier"

    • Renowned criminal psychologist Dr Florent Gatherias ahead of Bailey’s 2019 French trial. Which was a guilty verdict btw.

    or "pub talk and gossip" according to internet user Rooks.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Ok. Well my point still stands, A male who leaves DNA on a murder victim is almost always the perpetrator of the crime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks


    I'm not surprised that the French justice system appeals to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    All these antics just because I came into a thread and offered an insight into the match between Baileys psychology and the nature of the crime.

    If you were as logical as you let on you could see it too and simply accept it.

    Rather than dismissing the conclusions of a published doctor as 'pub talk'.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭tibruit


    The sample wasn`t on the victim`s body. It was on her shoe and it was an old shoe. You cannot establish when it was deposited.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    if you go back through the thread you can read about the fact that the manner of Sophie’s death was fairly typical (>50% of female homicides are overkill) and almost 90% from a close acquaintance or family member.
    Your statement about Baileys personality is reasonable but statistically less relevant than you make it out to be, especially in the context that there was other DNA found on her person, which you continually ignore and paint as a straw man, in a cold case murder investigation thread. no less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "Rather than dismissing the conclusions of a published doctor as 'pub talk'."

    Interesting.

    What's this doctor's name, and what did they conclude?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Stop trying to diminish and dismiss.
    It warrants detailed investigation and ruling in or out. It is exceedingly obvious that unknown DNA on a dead body, clothes or skin, or hair or anywhere on a victims person, would be Bombshell evidence in almost any cold case.
    Until such time that it is explained, or more conclusive evidence is found, the person who left the unknown DNA evidence is the chief suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Stop trying to diminish and dismiss"

    Go tell the cold case team. They don`t seem to agree with you either. Bombshell!! Main suspect!! Fierce dramatic stuff altogether.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    1st quote any proof of any strawman by me. you cant because it didnt happen. And show where I ignored any dna. You wont do that either, because you can't because I didn't.

    My statement is not statistically less relevant than I make it out to be. I didn't give a statistic. Nor do you btw.

    I merely observed that a repeat wife beater/recividist criminal with a rare personality disorder associated with increased propensity to violence, and with addiction issues, was within convenient distance of the violent murder of a woman. And that in a sparsely populated area he was of the physical build to commit such a crime. Where others of less physical ability in a small population may not have been. (the rage aspect of the act only adding to the consistency with his disorder).

    That makes him worthy of being a top suspect, and all other things being equal I think any psychology professional or police detective will agree with that. And he was, and he is still.

    The reason I offered any of this was that I saw other users attributing normal psychology to Bailey, when in fact he was not psychologically normal.

    If you disagree with any of those facts, or think he's not worthy of being a top suspect I invite you to disagree and explain why.

    I could do with the laugh.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    "Ian Bailey was a man with “narcissistic and megalomaniac traits” and a “sexual inclination” who most likely killed Sophie Tuscan Du Plantier"

    • Renowned criminal psychologist Dr Florent Gatherias ahead of Bailey’s 2019 French trial. Which was a guilty verdict btw.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    as I said, “Your statement about Baileys personality is reasonable”. I don’t disagree that he was a malignant narcissist wife beating prick.

    I believe the top suspect is the person who left the DNA, as is the case in the vast majority of cold cases. I think most police detectives would agree with me on this point in fact. I’m ok to agree to disagree on this though.

    The Garda should continue with the DNA investigations, and if anything comes of it well, wow dna finding a murderer in a cold case, I’ll be damned, never would have thunk it….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    Great. And I never disputed the importance of the dna. Nor did I ignore it, I previously posted about it - twice. Its on the previous page if you'd care to check. I literally communicated with you directly twice on the issue.

    Also where is my strawman. Thats right. You didnt quote it. As I said you wouldnt. Because it doesnt exist.

    Theres a possibility you have my avatar mixed up with another user.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


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