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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If a car runs up the back of my car causing damage, I can photograph their disc and have evidence of their ins cover, the motor tax, and NCT. I can also confirm their reg by taking a photo of the vehicle NP.

    I cannot do that with a database unless it is publicly available, and internet cover is available, and my mobile is working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 957 ✭✭✭MICKEYG


    But you can take a photo of the reg. After that you have all you need.

    Sorry, not trying to be pendantic but I can't see what a printed disc gives that a reg can't.

    Knowing at the time the mct, tax and insurance status of the car is no real benefit from what I can see. What can you do with that immediate information.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Some people use fake or cloned reg. I'd imagine there could be a large overlap between them and people who don't have insurance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 957 ✭✭✭MICKEYG


    They could just as easily clone a disc. In fact, probably a lot easier.

    If someone would have a fake plate would you truat the discs?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭GHendrix


    Cars cost thousands of euro to buy and thousands to run and maintain when you factor in insurance, tax, NCT, fuel , servicing, tolls, parking etc. The real question we should be asking is why are so many people choosing an insanely expensive option?

    But we already know the answer. Necessity in the vast majority of cases.

    Reducing cars sounds great. But then you’ll end up with lots of people like me desperately trying to get back to live in Dublin so we don’t need the car. And I’m not sure that’s a great thing with all the consequences of that



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I live quite near to St Vincent's University Hospital and SVPH.

    There is loads of car parking used there, but it would be surprising to see how many cars are parked on site, and in adjacent roads. There are even multistorey car parks built on the site of the old multistorey nurses accommodation that was demolished to allow it. [Oh, I suppose the nurses that would have lived there now need a car park space as they now must commute.]

    Now, the hospital is on bus routes - 7, 7A, 4, 27X, BE Wexford bus, The Aircoach bus from Dublin Airport [which does not pick up passengers except at the airport]. It is also close to Sydney Parade Dart station. So very well served with public transport. Even better if one includes those serving RTE on the Stillorgan Road, requiring a 1km walk.

    Why do people not use PT to get to the hospital? [I know the answer - convenience. But not all the cars carry patients, and not all patients need door to door car transport].

    A fortune was spent on providing multi-storey underground car parking for the new (yet to be opened) National Children's Hospital despite the Red Lind Luas passing through the site, and being a short distance from Heuston Station, with multiple bus services feeding the hospital site.

    Is PT so bad, only a car will do? We need to be re-educated as a nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,447 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A car with a fake or cloned reg will have a fake insurance disk matching said reg. Otherwise it'd be very, very easily detectable.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I agree but the general public opinion on the Children’s Hospital was that nowhere near enough car access is being provided - not enough approach road capacity or enough car parking. It seems that no amount of that will ever be enough for some people.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The provision of underground car parking under a hospital, or such public spaces, is wholly stupid - and that is apart from the huge cost.

    In the last few weeks, two homes (one in the UK and one here) were completely burnt out, fortunately no loss of life, with the loss of all contents. Cause? Batteries on e-scooters that caught fire while being charged.

    Batteries are known to be a fire hazard such that it is impossible to send them internationally by post, or by air freight. I know this because it too nearly two years to get a mobile phone that was left in the back of an Australian taxi back to Ireland because it had to be hand carried.

    Not so long ago, the Blackrock Shopping Centre (in Cork) car park was burnt out because an Opel Zafira (known to be a fire hazard because many have burnt out) caught fire, destroying many cars and the shopping centre.

    Now, if batteries are known to be a fire hazard then why are we installing huge batteries into electric cars just to answer range anxiety? And then allow such vehicles into underground car parks with limited egress? Surely they should be restricted to surface car parks. In fact, why build underground car parks at all?

    In particular, hospitals are busy places with many people milling around within it not familiar with emergency routines in case of fire - which can only result in loss of life in the event of fire. The unattended car parks filled with electric cars a disaster waiting to happen.

    Madness!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,628 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Not all lithium batteries are equal. The very worst are the type in your phone and those scooters, and Tesla cars; no other car manufacturer uses this chemistry. It has high energy density, but it's also highly susceptible to "thermal runaway"... a polite phrase for an unquenchable fireball. The EV industry uses two other kinds of Lithium battery: one, NMC, is far safer than the type described above, but will still burn fiercely once it ignites - it's no riskier than petrol overall. The third common type, LFP, is really hard to burn, and for that reason it is widely used in industrial applications instead of lead-acid batteries.

    If you have to have car parking (and you do), then underground is the most efficient use of space for it. The problem in Cork was that the centre operators were too cheap to fit a fire suppression system (sprinklers) which would have prevented the single fire spreading to adjacent vehicles.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    The problem with those scooters that were catching fire is they are crap products using crap batteries not up to proper standards. Electric cars are actually far less likely to catch fire than a petrol or diesel car. Like that Zafira you mentioned. That wasn't an electric car. If you were really concerned about cars going on fire, perhaps you should remove the riskier internal combustion cars first.

    As an aside, it's not impossible to send battery products by mail. It happens all the time. It just needs to be declared properly. How do you think new phones get delivered in two days from China?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    It's subscriber only, but nice to see the plans for the next phase. Westland Row changes by start of summer.

    The council is now preparing the next phase of the plan: a ban on private traffic turning left from Westland Row into Pearse Street. This measure, due to be in place between April and June, may sound like a smaller intervention than the changes on the quays but it requires more engineering work, Mr O’Brien said.

    The council will then turn its attention to Parliament Street. By the summer the southside street which faces Capel Street – already pedestrianised on the north side of the river – will be traffic-free after 11am. The only remaining obstacle is the number 69 bus, an infrequent route which is due to be eliminated in the coming months as part of the National Transport Authority’s network redesign.

    The council will also prepare designs for a plaza either in front of the Custom House or at Beresford Place, with a decision to be made in 2025. It also plans to submit a planning application for the long-awaited College Green civic plaza by the end of the coming year.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2024/12/28/new-dublin-traffic-changes-to-take-effect-by-mid-2025/



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The CH car park cost a fortune and caused huge delays resulting in spiralling costs and further delays.

    A multi-story carpark would have been a better solution, but would have looked less architectural to all those mammies and daddies with their sick children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    No mention of a permanent scheme on the quays with 24 hr operation and an end to traffic cones and temporary signs. They're probably waiting for the court room silliness to be over



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    2000+ internal combustion cars go on fire a year in Ireland. Who knows how many other things like dryers, etc. go on fire. eScooters and EVs are a tiny number in comparison. Hysterical much.

    None of this has anything to do with car access in cities. We've spent a century creating a car centric culture. We are not going to reverse it overnight, it's ridiculous to think otherwise. They have multi storey car parks in Holland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Quite a few scandals with fire standards in Ireland. Certainly could be tackled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Speaking from long experience. Making a long day at the children's hospital longer by going circuitous route crammed on public transport like sardines standing for two hours. It's some thing I'm going to avoid if I've a choice.

    …and I use public transport constantly for work...



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The fact that vehicles can burst into flames (whatever their design) should be enough to ban underground carparks in very busy publicly accessed buildings like hospitals. If a fire such that happened in Cork occurred in a busy public hospital it would be catastrophic. Dundrum shopping centre carpark was flooded which is another hazard that should cause underground carparks to be reconsidered.

    St Vincent's Hospital is very well served by public transport. Not every carpark space is for people who have spent two hours crammed on public transport like sardines for two hours. The Dart runs every ten minutes in both directions, and most trains are less than 50% full. The 7,7Aand 4 run about 5 minutes apart, and are seldom full.

    Now the CH is yet to open, so we must wait to see how PT works out for them, but the Red Luas runs through the site, with many buses pass the entrance, and Heuston not far away with many IC trains feeding into it.

    So where are these hoards of patients coming from that spend two hours crammed on public transport? I would imagine that most of the carparks in the CH will be used by the staff who will live locally, or should do so once the housing shortage eases.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,947 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I would have to agree. I'm one of the more ardent proponents of public transport use, but going to hospital is one of the most stressful experiences that any of us will have, and frankly unless it's a simple check-up, blood test or a consultant appointment, I suspect that most people would far prefer to go there (and more importantly return home) in the comfort of a car (and will be accompanied by a relative or friend who can drive them). The uncertainty of whether buses show up on time only adds to stress levels at a time like that.

    Most people do not live on a direct bus or rail connection to/from a hospital - most will require a change en route, and frankly that's not realistic. You are making a massive assumption that they do. People are assigned hospitals from all over not just along the local bus routes.

    The vast majority of people will be making an orbital journey to/from hospitals given their locations, and as I've explained many times, public transport is never going to be a perfect option in those circumstances, as it becomes far more difficult to marry individual starting locations with the destinations (hospitals in this case).

    I would imagine that many employees do already use public transport, where the routes suit them and where the transport operating hours permit it, but expecting large numbers of patients to switch isn't realistic for the reasons that I've already given above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    All of the hospital equipment heating medical can "burst" into flame. Oxygen etc. A hospital is a fire hazard itself. Maybe we should ban those too.

    For me to get to those hospitals in Dublin and I live in Dublin it's an hour door to door to most of these hospitals on public transport. Most of them have no direct routes so it's into the city center and then back out again on a different line. Then the reverse on the way home home.

    And if you go into outpatients or appointments it's usually travelling at peak commuter time. Which means no seating and struggling to even get on to buses, trains or luas or Dart.

    I've seen people passing out on overcrowdedtrains far too often. That's when I've been commuting.

    Then you get into outpatients and it's crammed with 200 kids and parents, many with mobility issues. So you wait hours. Even if it's private its a huge chunk of time. Which you've taken off work, and maybe go back to work after the appointment.

    If the hospital is cappagh or hermitage or blanch, BlackRock you might be able to nip in and out quickly in a car on an orbital route. Or if you local to Dublin City Location. But most of the population is in the suburbs so are going to have to into or though the city center to most of these hospitals. And it's a radial public transport system.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,329 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are indeed correct, oxygen machines are a fire hazard, they should be banned from hospitals. Let's not forget that X-Ray machines produce hazardous radiation, they should also be banned from hospitals. Sharp knives and scalpels can cause injuries, ban them from hospitals too.

    There is no real risk from electric cars bursting into flames, certainly no more than any of the other hazards I have mentioned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If you want to reduce car access you provide park and ride or park and walk facilities on outskirts of centers of activity. Reducing access in the centre. But you do it slowly gradually over time. You make public transport the easier option.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Exactly.

    Most of the parking is primarily for staff, not patients. However, park & ride is the answer that should have been used for the CH because there is not enough room on the James site. The car parks do not need to be outside the M50, just easy access.

    The huge hole in the ground cost a fortune.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    No not "exactly" because I wasn't agreeing with you.

    The majority of parking in NCH is not allocated to staff. That said how do you know where staff park or visitors are parking. They might be on street or streets away..

    When we were regular to temple street it was impossible to find parking. Mater would be often full. Drop one parent and child off to Casualty or outpatients the other circle until they to get parking, often a distance away.

    Not rocking up to hospital with some injury on the bus.

    Sometimes you are able to wander down for an appointment. But often it's not that simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Surprise, surprise. Business is booming in the city centre despite the ban on private cars 😜

    https://bsky.app/profile/padraigmcevoy.bsky.social/post/3leh2shzwf22m



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Good result



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭scrabtom


    I am about as anti car and pro public transport as they come, but I think people going to the children's hospital are a definite exception to that viewpoint to me.

    There's an awful lot of stuff you need to bring with children when you bring them anywhere, and I'm sure even more so when they are very sick. The last thing people going through one of the worst situations imaginable should have to deal with is stressing about fitting everything they need on to public transport or worrying about whether they'll be able to park at the hospital.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think there are better places to to tackle car use than hospitals or children's hospitals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not having foot paths and no straight roads is considered pedestrian friendly because cars are forced to slow down on this kind of shared space layout.

    They probably didn't anticipate drivers in Ireland lack of giving a dang or lack of enforcement of traffic law. Or simply parking just where the heck they like.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭OEP




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