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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,665 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    He knew Sophie, he had a believable motive, he lied about his whereabouts on the night in question, he had the opportunity, he had injuries on his arm and head, he had a history of violence against women, he had a suspicious fire behind his house soon after the murder, he showed obsession with other women and showed creepy sexual behaviour with others and he admitted on a number of occasions to actually killing Sophie.

    What part of that is made up rubbish?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭BQQ


    Why Marie Farrell?

    I’d say it’s simply that she made a call (unprompted) under the name Fiona claiming to have seen a man

    Not too much of a stretch to turn that into seeing a particular man


    whether her testimony is true or not (or which version is true) it had the value of forcing jules Thomas to change her story about Bailey being home in bed all night, which in turn forced Bailey to change his story and admit he went out in the middle of the night

    Why did they both lie at first?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭tibruit


    So after the stop off on Hunt`s Hill, according to Jules Thomas`s statement…

    "The two of us then went home and very little was said except some words to the effect that he was going over later or sometime, if I wanted to go, and I said I was too tired. I got the impression that he was going over to Alfie`s but I wasn`t sure if it was that night or not."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Anything regarding Marie Farrell makes me wonder if it was true or not, it's not impossible to think that the phone calls were a lie as well, same as calling herself Fiona. That is unless the incoming calls to the police were recorded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,665 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    The important part of that post was that both Jules and Bailey changed their stories. Why did they do that?



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,867 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Would that be the statement that Jules was pressurised to sign, has details in it that she claims she didn't say (they are written in garda language) and she has ultimately said that she does not stand by that statement?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,330 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    There was approx 4-6 accounts of Bailey knowing Sophie listed here , which I don't have to hand before the question is asked”

    Absolute rubbish there aren’t even 2 accounts no less 6 -and none of them are anyways believable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Jules seemed able enough to handle garda pressure when stating that bailey didn't leave the bed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    There aren't even 2 accounts?

    I'm calling that out as a flat out lie



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,867 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If she was able enough, why then did the gardai arrest her daughter with a view to getting Jules to confess?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭tibruit


    That`s how it works. You didn`t think that she`d be writing it out herself did you? I know he might use terminology like "jog on" instead of "move along", but at the end of the day a guard writes out the statement, you are given the statement to read and you sign it if you are happy with it. She signed it and came back and signed it again three years later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks


    I'm waiting for the evidence that says he did it. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. You'll just post another load of circumstantial rubbish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Yes, there is: living next door to the victim, history of disputes with her about access to the barn and use of the lane, being very close to the crime scene at the time it was committed, suspected of growing illegal narcotics. Knew the victim, met her frequently, had been in her house, described her as pain in the neck.

    None of this means he did it, of course; but you can't say there's no connection or no link. There's actually plenty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks


    So, there is no credible evidence tying Bailey to the murder. The Gardai made an absolute mess of the investigation at the time. But don't worry, the case is currently being investigated again so it'll all be sorted this time.

    Who's conducting the new investigation? Oh, the same organisation that already messed it up. I, for one, have every faith in this endeavour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    In absence of evidence it sounds strange, even stupid, to constantly blame Bailey, suggest that he hiked for hours to and from his house in the darkness of the night to ring or knock at Sophie's door in hopes of her opening up, demanding sex and killing her when she turned him down, and that all after a night of a good amount of drinking in the pub? - Whilst at the same time a known drug user and neighbour whom Sophie had a dispute with would be close by the whole night?

    I'd suggest unless there is new credible evidence, the discussion will go in circles, and those thinking Bailey did it vs those who think he didn't more or less evenly split, - same of those supporting evidence beyond reasonable doubt vs those who think that he's guilty because he beat up his partner Jules…

    I guess we'd have to wait for the end of the cold case review, - whatever that means, especially in the light of memories fading, suspects passing away etc…

    I am also guessing that so far the Guards came up with a lot more circumstantial evidence, but a real break through in the case hasn't happened at all. The motive might be a combination of that they owe it to Sophie's family, or the local population and their doubts in the credibility of the Guards, or simply getting some form of answers to unanswered questions and maybe at best a more modern forensic approach with the little credible evidence found and still left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,665 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    So none of my post was made up? Thanks for confirming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    You're merely displaying your blinkered bias by assuming original investigation and the CCR are the same



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,578 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    I think at the time the DNA technology was in its infancy such so that you'd need a teaspoon of blood to get any DNA material.

    I'm still surprised that they didn't check under Mme du Plantier's fingernails, or did they?

    Still, given…

    • Bailey's history of domestic violence (his beating of Jules almost causing her to lose an eye)
    • The bonfire at the back of his house where items of clothes were burnt
    • The house-guest finding his coat soaking in a bucket in his bathroom
    • The intimate knowledge needed of the remote local geography (even locals had problems getting to du Plantier's cottage)

    …and apply Occam's Razor. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes.

    The whole Marie Farrell angle really muddies the waters. At this stage you can discount *anything* she ever said.

    I see interesting parallels between Bailey and Joe O'Reilly. Both were trying hard to be 'Johnny-on-the-spot' in terms of events after they immediately unfolded. Both denied their guilt to the last and tried to seek legal remedy right to the bitter end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Ah the old bailey strode up to the door demanding sex red herring

    Gets trotted out here regularly

    I don't believe thats the scenario at all . In fact bailey has been described as not promiscuous and somewhat afraid of women in this regard

    He has however demonstrated himself to be obsessive

    Someone posted another lie I believe upthread that the gardai were claiming Bailey arrived looking for the ride



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Baileys "night of good drinking" didn't stop him getting out of bed to work on his newspaper article did it

    That's always omitted when posters are referring to Bailey's alleged state of intoxication which rendered him incapable of travelling to sophies



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,462 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nope it is not "always omitted".

    Big difference between a walk of several hours at 3am on a cold December night after no sleep and getting out of bed after a few hours kip to sit at a desk and tidy up an article.

    This has been pointed out to you already on the thread but doesn't stop you making such false assertions. I guess that must be an example of the "blinkered bias" you claim to be concerned about in post above.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    The Gardai did attribute a sexual motive to to Bailey in their submission to the DPP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    They did scrape her fingernails for DNA; and all they found was her own. [I apologise, I can't find where this is published; but I'm pretty sure it is a credited fact]

    Adds a good deal of weight to the idea that the killer wore gloves. It was a winter night, after all, and no fingerprints were found at the scene in spite of much bloodshed. No skin scraps or DNA on the thorns of the brambles, in the hedge that poor Sophie got snagged in.

    Of course, if they wore gloves, their hands wouldn't be scratched. Can't have it both ways!

    However, the technology has improved by leaps and bounds since 1997. I earnestly hope that some of the evidence taken at the scene is still extant, able to be re-tested, and they can finally add some real data to this hazy cloud of guesswork and assumption.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,462 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "Someone posted another lie."

    Your words.

    From the DPP report:
    "The Gardaí attribute a sexual motive to Bailey allegedly going to Sophie Toscan du Plantier’s house in the early hours of the morning before she was murdered. They say that he killed her because she rebutted his sexual advance."

    Yep. I guess someone did alright.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I'm pretending to be a Cold Case Detective, today. See thread title for justification!

    IF the killer wore gloves - and it seems quite likely that he did - then it should have been an easy next step to round up every glove owned by every male in a five-mile radius, and test all of them for blood. It's a simple test. There aren't all that many men of suitable age and fitness in the area. This could have been done, and should have been done.

    That is, assuming that the killer was local. This is usually a safe assumption, and statistics would support it. But if the killer was an unknown from outside the area, well, it makes detecting much harder. They might have been a scrap-metal dealer looking to turn over unoccupied holiday homes over winter, or a drug buyer hoping to score. We cannot know!

    In such a case, there are almost no leads to follow - and the case remains unsolved.

    Post edited by Day Lewin on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Sure it`s no worse than saying the walk took him several hours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Adds a good deal of weight to the idea that the killer wore gloves"

    Or used a weapon that kept him beyond arms length to incapacitate her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,462 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Don't forget to add in the detour to the bridge where Marie Farrell of the miraculous eyesight spots him so the Guards could "place him" at the crime scene.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,733 ✭✭✭893bet


    if the killer was “smart” enough to wear gloves do you think he kept them then for work around the house? 😀



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    This is indeed possible. He switched weapons, though, and almost certainly handled the gate, too; if he were bare-handed he would almost HAVE to have picked up some blood, and left some trace of his own hand, somewhere.

    The trace of blood on the outside of the house door is Sophie's own blood; a puzzle, not really accounted for by any good theory, in my view. Given that the actual crime scene was at the far end of the small field, and there's no other sign of violence in or around the actual house.



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