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Energy infrastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    Multi-national comes knocking on door of energy provider saying we need power for our datacentre or we have to reconsider future of our operation in Ireland. Pressure applied by IDA and Minister. energy provider prioritises multi-national at expense of citizens…brownouts or worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Foreigners do have these odd ideas about Ireland.

    Take Apple: they threatened retrenchments if they couldn't build that DC in Galway. They've grown their presence here since we refused them permission to do so. Same story with corporation tax. The big multinationals now pay 15%, and they're still here, still increasing headcount... despite years of "they're only there because of the corporation tax" bollocks from commenters abroad.

    Why is nobody flocking to Hungary with its super-low corporation tax and even cheaper energy…? Could it be that these are not essentials?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    There is not anything correct in your post from very first sentence to the last but in correcting you I will drag the thread off topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    You're the one who raised the idiotic scenario of being blackmailed by some evil multinational. It's a fantastical, conspiracy-based argument that betrays a near complete ignorance of how things operate in this country… or any country, really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    I think Eamon himself went over to Germany to oversee the deal



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    Obviously none of you wish to acknowledge the deep-rooted problems with clientelism in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    State will lose out over data centre plans, Amazon, Google and Microsoft warn – The Irish Times

    Here the Multi-nationals outline exactly what they want and not a jot of concern for the Citizens of Ireland is shown.

    Of course, none of you will care, as you have batteries which will function as a UPS to prevent brownouts destroying your water pumps and other electrical devices.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Are these data centres on deals that force load shedding if there is a shortage of generation?

    Could they be forced to provide some of their own power by, for example, covering their buildings with solar panels?

    Could they provide heat for local communal heating schemes?

    Currently, the increase in energy demand from data centres matches the rise in renewable energy supply so we are standing still. 21% of Ireland electricity supply - which is outrageous, unless they pay a premium for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    community heating off datacentres is greenwashing of the most brazen sort. The heat from datacentres is simply too disipated to be economically useful. if they did work tomorrow they would not work next year as and when devices get moved around a datacentre. A datacentre is already hard enough to design without trying to plumb it to extract heat on top of everything else.

    I was watching from my chair old aircon devices being hoisted off and new giant air con devices being hoisted on to the top of one of the datacentres here just the other day. There is only one way that heat is going and it is upwards in to the sky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    what are you waffling about. Maybe just stick to things in Germany that affect you



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Transparency International considers Ireland to be the 11th least corrupt country out of the 180 nations they surveyed in 2023. Germany scores just one point more to sit in joint 9th place with Luxembourg.

    That ranking aligns with my own experience of living and doing business in this country. So, what’s your data source? Bild?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 359 ✭✭CoffeeImpala


    If the heat is so dissipated around the data centre that it can't be plumbed to extract heat what purpose does the aircon serve?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    You try to concentrate that in to meaningful heat to heat the radiators in a few thousand houses a few KM away and then tell me that it is worth it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 359 ✭✭CoffeeImpala


    That doesn't answer the question. If heat extraction doesn't work in a data centre because they are constantly moving the equipment around why are they installing aircon units?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Are we talking about data centres? Many new ones seem to be doing their own power generation now, using peaker plant equipment, interestingly enough. I would see a future where excess grid green energy could be sent to the data centres, and their peakers could be available to feed in to the grid. Right now they're just running the peaker equipment 24/7 really.

    Basically it looks like data centres might be getting into the power generation (supplier) game by the back door.

    I'm not in favour of data centres generally, but if we must have them in Ireland then this sounds like a good way forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Data centres are grid connected with their own backup generators



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭silvertimelinings


    According to this research in Germany there are 4.6 dunkelflaute of 48 hours per year and every second year there is a dunkelflaute where for 2 weeks Wind and Solare are not contributing significantly to the Grid. search for next-kraftwerke.de for text "Das es dabei nicht immer nur um belegbare energiewirtschaftliche Fakten, sondern auch um Interessenvertretung geht, ist ebenso klar wie die Tatsache, dass es Dunkelflauten tatsächlich gibt. Etwa alle zwei Jahre tritt eine extreme Dunkelflaute mit entsprechenden Versorgungsengpässen auf, zur Überbrückung springen flexible konventionelle Kraftwerke ein."

    There are well grounded accusations in respectable publications that during the recent dunkelflaute in Germany Energy providers withheld supply to make prices go stratospheric. Organisations within the Irish industry appear to be seeking to operate both BESS and Wind Turbines/Solar and could potentially do the same if oversight is lacking. This is very much like the gamesmanship which Enron was involved in. Search for "Strompreise: Einige Konzerne nutzen "Dunkelflaute" aus" on br.de



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,996 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Given 70% of our electricity didn't come from renewables, we are decades away from there being excess - if you are an optimist - never if you are a realist.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    We have excess renewable energy at many periods throughout the year. Over the course of a whole year, we do not have enough renewable energy to meet our needs.

    Both of these statements are 100% true. That isn't an opinion, it is a fact.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,799 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    "According to this research in Germany there are 4.6 dunkelflaute of 48 hours per year and every second year there is a dunkelflaute where for 2 weeks Wind and Solare are not contributing significantly to the Grid."

    As you well know from 2030 to 2050 we could still use up to 20% of current emissions which works out at over 10 weeks full fat which is a tad longer than the 9.2 days you suggest we'd need.

    Renewables provide about a third of our electricity so we are still far from the area of diminishing returns. And even then those diminishing returns are still worthwhile if they reduce importing fossil fuel or increasing storage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Welcome silvertimelinings, our brand-new member who manages to write in the same style as our recently-banned member, gossamerfabric…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭silvertimelinings




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭silvertimelinings


    https://europeanenergy.com/2024/12/20/european-energy-wins-wind-auction-in-romania/

    "The CfD contract is priced at EUR 65.7 per MWh and has a duration of 15 years."

    https://www.sserenewables.com/news-and-views/2024/09/drumnahough-successful-in-ireland-s-fourth-onshore-ress-auction/

    "The average weighted bid price for the auction is €96.85 per MWh, of which the weighted average for wind was €90.47/MWh"

    "Drumnahough is one of four onshore wind projects and 23 solar projects to have secured CfDs for a maximum of 16.5 years of new renewable energy generation under the Irish Government’s RESS-4 auction."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭howsshenow


    Interconnector site pour vous..

    https://youtu.be/KWKmFRGd7I0?si=6kq3M9fh_k2gp3Do



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭silvertimelinings


    https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2021/0913/1246571-amazon-data-centre-heat-tallaght/

    "The project costs around €9m. Just under €5m has come from the Department of the Environment, another €1m from European Interreg funding, and €2.5m from Finnish company Fortum, which is also providing much of the expertise in building the network."

    Blog article:

    https://lgiu.org/blog-article/south-dublin-county-councils-award-winning-tallaght-district-heating-scheme/

    A more general discussion of Datacentre District Heating:

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/28/datacenter_heat_reuse_challenges/

    I guess you can make up your own mind on it but each generation of chips(and other equipment) generally consumes less power therefore emits less heat than the last and the workload in a datacentre is transitory.

    If Ireland has baked in high energy prices…see above… then the datacentres won't remain in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I think you're right about "baked in " high energy costs - a lot to do with "baked in " high construction and development costs

    The equipment is all bought overseas and imported - , so that's more or less the same cost wherever you go..

    But a team of engineers based in cork ,working on developing a wind farms can pretty much work on a development anywhere in Europe -

    If the development costs in Ireland are too high and there's work overseas they can and will work on that .. maybe someone in power should look at why development costs are high - and what can be altered while still having protection against unfettered development..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭gjim


    "energy provider prioritises multi-national at expense of citizens…brownouts or worse."

    Yet this has never happened? In Ireland or even Germany, or anywhere else?

    How do you reconcile your oft-repeated (and I know it's not just you) adamant belief that increased renewable share of electricity generation MUST cause increased unreliability or brownouts, with the fact that we don't have any examples of it happening despite the exponential growth of wind and solar over the last decade?

    Shouldn't it appear in the statistics? I mean everything about grid reliability is measured - you'd think this would show up somewhere?

    Since it doesn't, does that not make you ever question this belief?

    I flip and flop between extreme irritation and genuine curiosity with these types of posts. Irritation that the same unfounded claims are made over and over, but also curiosity why apparently normal people become so adamant in a belief that they can just ignore easily available evidence. It feels like the same "mind hack" mechanism which turns people into conspiracy theorists.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭silvertimelinings


    The URL says it all. I would guess that this fits in to the "or worse" element of that banned poster's contribution.

    https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/report-home-building-to-halt-in-west-london-due-to-data-center-power-demands/



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