Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

The population we have already needs increased services. We need people to deliver those services.

Infrastructure is developed over time. We arent going to stand still economically and face down a recession by choice, but we do need to work on finding a balance with immigration.

You can manage immigration to enable the delivery of services and infrastructure.

What is your suggestion? Block all immigrants coming into the country?

If they are here they are not employed, because we have plenty of job vacancies in almost every sector.

The same question keep being asked: What is the right amount of immigration for Ireland?

People seem to be arguing for or against immigration, but the real requirement is somewhere inbetween.

If I thought immigration was being managed I'd have no issue.

But it's not, they're not even lying. Their stated position is, we can't stop the world arriving on our shoes either legally of illegally and shur why would we want to, aren't they all a great bunch of lads.

It would not.

But ending all immigration tomorrow would also destroy the countries services & infrastructure and lead to an exodus of MNCs leaving our shores, because they cant hire the correct talent in Ireland any longer.

Back to the 80s we go...

I think most fair minded people would agree that immigration is necessary, but that it should be managed in line with the state's requirements.

I would say it is required if we want to keep the MNCs here and all the CT and high income tax that comes with them.

There is not a chance in hell the large MNCs would be based here if they could not hire staff from abroad.

Not all immigrants have equal levels of employment in Ireland. There are massive discrepancies between national orgins:

That said, nobody is trying to argue for or against immigration as a whole here or anywhere else, thats a typical straw man made by you and other people trying to claim we can't control immigration at all.

There are worlds of differences within the headline of "immigration" - returning Irish citizens, EU citizens, legal non-EU immigrants arriving with a work visa, and illegal immigration / asylum seekers. The first two categories can't be limited, and most of the third category people wouldn't want to limit - nurses, doctors, highly paid tech workers etc. The last one is the issue.

Copying Denmark and reducing the numbers of asylum seekers arriving by 20,000+ a year would save the state over €1bn a year in housing costs alone (nevermind other benefits), be the equivalent of building 10,000 odd extra housing units a year, and would impact very very few skilled jobs. Its literally all positive, in particular in regard to the Irish housing market.

The post below yours demonstrates that some people ARE aruging to reduce all types of immigration, including returning irish, I assume.

The fourth category related to asylum immigration is the one that costs the state the most money, but the state still have to prepare for some level of asylum seekers arriving.

Even if the govt implemented a Denmark asylum policy (which wont happen, we all know that) they would still need to prepare for some level of asylum immigration, including application processing accommodation, housing for succesful applicants etc.

What number of applicants do you think we should prepare for and how would we provide the infrastructure?

Before I reply, please let me ask you not to use strawman arguments or a "begging the question" fallacy with me or anyone else on these boards. It's disrespectful, and extremely deleterious to any discussion.

Legal immigration could be reduced without in anyway restricting Irish citizens or EU citizens, which would be legally impossible and in the case of Irish citizens, reprehensible.

From the CSO:

• The population in Ireland rose by 98,700 people which was the largest 12-month increase since 2008.
• There were 149,200 immigrants which was a 17-year high. This was the third successive 12-month period where over 100,000 people immigrated to Ireland. 
• Of those immigrants, 30,000 were returning Irish citizens, 27,000 were other EU citizens, and 5,400 were UK citizens. The remaining 86,800 immigrants were citizens of other countries.
• Over 69,000 people departed the State in the 12 months to April 2024, compared with 64,000 in the same period of 2023. This is the highest emigration figure since 2015. 
• There was a natural increase of 19,400 people in the State comprised of 54,200 births and 34,800 deaths.

That 86,800 figure should be where immigration restrictions should be targeted.

I should have said "overall" immigration. However, I don't think that my meaning was unclear in that I meant that legal immigration should be reduced alone with illegal immigration.

EU immigration cannot be restricted as it's not really a member state competency.

Non-EU migration can be, as it is controlled almost entirely by the Irish state. The UK is an exception due to the CTA.

Enough with the snark, it was very clear what was went. The only person trying to conflate non-EU migration or asylum seekers with EU migration is you.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/12/18/irish-house-prices-rising-by-close-to-10-a-year/

Now in actual property related news - the average price in Dublin is now 600k. Nationwide avg is 430k.

It is very clear FF and FGs housing plans are not working. In govt together for past 4 years, supporting each other for a further 4 years before that. And the rental & property markets have only got worse in that time.

In another 4 years prices will be up around 550k nationwide and above 750k in Dublin.

The poster said ALL (capitals theirs, not mine) migration needs to be reduced, not just asylum migration.

They specifically said that; I am not putting words in anyone's mouth.

If you discern that All migration does not include Irish/EU migration, well then you have a different comprehension of the word 'all" than I do.

Thanks for putting a number of acceptable asylum, so we are talking 1,000 to 2,000 per annum I think?

But what happens if 5,000 arrive and they succesfully claim asylum?

Yes

why do you think it is not working? Price rices are exactly what a lot of FF and FG voters want as it makes them richer. The FF and FG housing policy talks of “affordability” and never about “reducing prices while increasing supply”; which is translated as increasing supply of houses and the ability of people to buy houses at whatever prices they are. This sounds like trying to have one’s cake and also eat it of course.