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Energy infrastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭gjim


    My bad. I took "SA" to be South Africa but rereading, it's clear that it was South Australia you were talking about. I take it back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Two rules of thumb:
    1. To get lifetime output, MWh, at 35% capacity factor (lower than the real figure of 39% for onshore) over 25 years, multiply the nameplate capacity in MW by 75000. By rounding down to an "easy" number, this seriously underestimates output, but it’s better to be cautious than optimistic.
    2. Operation and maintenance costs over 25 years will add 20% to construction costs. (this figure is much more accurate)

    Now you can use the Magic Of Sums to work out the production cost of a unit of electricity from any windfarm where you know the build cost (round it up from whatever is in the press release) and the nameplate capacity.

    tl;dr, in Ireland, this gives you answers between €40 and €50/MWh.

    Sale price of wind energy is something that depends on market competition at time of sale, and is thus irrelevant in any discussion of the captial-efficiency of the generation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    1734344483663849940624656158976.png

    I would agree with a few other posters that this sort of nonsense is off topic and the thread should be focused on actual energy infrastructure. I'm #1 guilty for taking the troll bait time and time again.

    If anyone wants average prices or below average prices then move to Slovenia, Albania, Georgia or Kosovo ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    "If anyone wants average prices or below average prices then move to Slovenia, Albania, Georgia or Kosovo ffs."

    How about EU or Euro Area. We are in the trade block for a reason but seem not to derive benefit from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    I've a project at the moment with a Hybird Gas power plant with BESS so that when demand drops offs, they cay keep operating at the most efficient output while charging the batteries and then offer Ancillary/system services with the BESS



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    Post edited by Sam Russell on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Why are you blaming the green party?

    for a party that sleeps a lot, they get a lot of credit, so much that they are by far the most effective party. Or maybe they didn't do as much and other parties did some work and and enforced European policy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Are you happy we continue burning Fossil fuel?

    are you happy that we have little energy Independence, and security of supply?

    are you happy that so much money leaves the state to pay for imported fossil fuel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    Market competition in Ireland. Don't make me laugh. A captured Regulator and impotent Competition Authority means Market Competition will never exist in Ireland. People will be charged until their pips squeak.

    Times were better under ESB even though it was inefficient in that Electricity was delivered with no profit motive and at just above the cost of supply without the Government looking for a dividend to be returned. Now it is a Capitalistic dystopia rather than a true privatised free market.

    The value of those Wind Farms halve overnight if Ireland starts paying International prices for Electricity generated from Wind. There will be Wind Energy Oligarchs in Ireland within the next decade. Eddie O'Connor was on his way to being one of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Does it make much difference wether money leaves the state for natural Gas , or leaves the state for wind turbines and international finance companies , or Irish finance companies for that matter ,

    The big difference is once renewables and batteries are installed,they don't go off shore ,

    So we have a level of energy independence,

    Yes interconnectors can export electricity, but it's unlikely that eirgrid would allow energy exports in a deficit situation,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    If the value of Wind Farms halve overnight then you can rely on the Government stepping in to guard these Captains of Industry and allow continued privatisation of profits and socialisation of loses.

    This is already in some respects being done in that the projects are being de-risked with guaranteed pricing for decades. Who shoulders the cost of this if not the citizens of Ireland.

    Building Wind Farms based on an assumption that the Proposers of these projects will continue to receive supernormal profits on provision of service is unsound. It introduces a systemic risk in to a business model and in time we will probably witness moral hazard associated with failed projects where the Proposers know they will just walk away from the project if things go awry…

    I was once a believer. I was in the turbines up in Femanagh just after they were built. I drank the cool aid. That changed around 2008. The Irish Wind Energy project is just a scheme to enrich vested interests at the expense of the Citizens of Ireland and Eamonn Ryan with no built in ability to delay gratification in pursuit of his doom cult beliefs just amplified the cost to the people of Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    Once contracts are expired they can sell to who they want…think datacentres…I sit between two datacentres either side of my office. They are carbon neutral datacentres.

    We could be in a position like the great famine with plenty of foodstuff being produced in Ireland but none for the people to eat and with fish in the rivers but you'll be deported to Van Diemen's land if you dare poach the fish which belong to the Ascendency. The Greens want to make it a crime to use Turf to heat yourself on a cold winter night.

    We already have evidence of people dabbling in self-sufficency with the modern equivalent of a kitchen garden and greenhouse to generate electricity; see links below. A large proportion of these people would not be engaging in these inefficient uses of scarce resources if Ireland had an affordable functioning energy supply market. This reminds me of discussions on boards.ie back in the mid 2000s when people were trying to set up irelandoffline meshes of voluntary ISPs over wifi because the Market for high speed internet was not functioning. People are driven to do things which appear somewhat insane when the market is hampered from meeting the need.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058319170/solar-panels-at-home-worth-it

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122956980#Comment_122956980



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    The ignore button really cleans up this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    No, I am not happy and I want a competent ministry and potent regulator who aren't captured by vested interests but act toward the interests of the citizens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭gjim


    An interesting calculation I did for 2023 was to look at the energy supplied by wind in Ireland over the year - which was about 14,000GWh - and roughly calculate it's equivalent cost if we were still relying on gas. I used the average import price for NG in Europe and the typical amount of gas required to generate a MWh and came to a figure of just under $1B a year of money that is no longer "leaving the country" because we can now produce this energy locally using our own infrastructure and resources. Not only that but we've reduced our reliance on potentially volatile global gas prices (although we're locked into long term contracts, eventually spot prices and long contract prices converge). I'll try to dig it out later.

    The guys would prefer we send a $1B yearly tribute to Qatar or Russia or somewhere I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    "The guys would prefer we send a $1B yearly tribute to Qatar or Russia or somewhere I guess." Norwegians are not nasty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    Plutocrats don't move among us and little of their wealth reaches the great unwashed. We had paper Billionaires in Ireland already with wives and family in residence but supposedly living offshore to evade what little taxable remained outside of tax efficient vehicles for wealth conservation. If you knock on the metal door of those turbines nobody is manning the turbine. Trying to compare renewable energy industry to a domestic manufacturing base is a false equivalence.

    The bloodstock industry driven by Sheiks has had more postive financial impact on Ireland than those native Wind Moguls will ever have even though I despise the horse racing industry and don't get me started on their tax breaks.

    Post edited by gossamerfabric on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭scrabtom


    This is going in to conspiracy theory territory now. Who are these shadowy wind moguls you are talking about?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    "We could be in a position like the great famine with plenty of foodstuff being produced in Ireland but none for the people to eat and with fish in the rivers but you'll be deported to Van Diemen's land if you dare poach the fish which belong to the Ascendency."

    OK now I get it.

    I was going to make you dig into the graph of prices like made another poster do and undermine your point re rip off prices. Won't bother now.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Looking forward to the headlines, "Big wind is out to blow down all your houses"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    do you not remember the litigious patron of Michael Lowry TD who was in a protracted legal battle with Revenue Commissioners as to whether they actually lived in Ireland or not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    My car in work doesn't get charged until there is enough electricty in the afternoon to go around. I left work not with 100% charged battery but less than 90% charged battery last Thursday. The datacentres however keep humming along and the big customers haven't even moved in to those datacentres yet so their demand is relatively light.

    Energy scarcity never happens until it suddenly does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Greenlink was originally supposed to be operational today. That date has slipped to January according to Wikipedia and other reports. However it's showing on the dashboard today with non-zero figures. Is it still undergoing testing ?

    https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/#all/interconnection

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,898 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Wind energy does not offer energy independence and in any case many windfarms here are owned by foriegn vulture funds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,898 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Gas underpins the wind scam so your argument is entirely illogical🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Ok, now lets apply filters.

    1. Remove those who have their own natural resources
    2. Remove those who have AC interconnectors to their neighbours
    3. Remove all those who do not have am islanded power system
    4. Readjust the price based on salaries
    5. Readjust for countries applying a price cap, guess what it is peoples taxes that pay the difference.
    6. Readust based on C0 kG/KW


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    and many are owned by Irish Companies. we have energy independence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Thats's a complete Strawman's argument, as that is up to your companies discretion.

    Are they charging you for the electricity?

    There's plenty of energy to go around, perhaps they are waiting for cheaper electricity, or generating their own and want to be 100% Renewable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭scrabtom


    I'm pretty sure he's said before he lives in Germany as well, so absolutely no relevance to Ireland.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    We've been through the entire saga of their company (which is in Germany) making a deal with an energy company, and making a conflicting deal with the employees: employees get free electricity to charge their vehicles, company gets electricity from the grid only at specific times.

    This was, of course, apparently the fault of the greens



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