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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,879 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, in what way ARE you a RuZZian sympathiser? At least you're being sort-of honest here. Please do enlighten us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,294 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    So you just gonna keep saying things like this while dodging the fact that you pretty claimed investigations exist that indicate Bucha was a false flag? Are you retracting your claim of such investigations existing as well?

    You've accused others of engaging in disinformation but you've pretty clearly done so by claiming something was a false flag without an ounce of proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I am a sympathiser in the sense that I find their position about NATO encroachment and US meddling/interference is actually quite reasonable and understandable. The US would never tolerate likewise but have a long history of aggressive interference, in fact a long history of murder and coups all over the world to swing 'things' their way. So to deny Russia they right of being pissed with the same int their own backyard smells of hypocrisy.

    Not that I actually think I owe anyone a clarification of my position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭jmreire


    No sympathy for any of you…winter of 2022-2023, Russians were happy that Europe would freeze. Hopefully it will be a record cold and long winter in Russia, that gives you plenty of time to think about the situation Russia is in, and what to do about it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Well its not quite like that.

    The original French forensics found that a large part of the bodies found in Bucha showed artillery/flechette impact. Rather than torture or summary execution or similar.

    Also I find it strange that Russia was categorically denied any access to forensics and other reports. If things were so clear cut what damage could that possibly do?

    Of course forensics might show inconsistencies like a body may have been moved after death or bodies were restrained or shot in the back of the head after they were already dead. I'm not saying that this happened, but denying access allows Russia to say that it did.

    So if it's all clear cut why not include Russia into the investigation then? I'm not saying let's get them in so they can move around things, but let them have observer status and let them see the reports. If only so they cant claim interference did happen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Good! Let them all gather together at the two sites..will make it easier to hit them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,294 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    This isn't the gotcha you think it is, the weapons you're referring to are considered a violation of humanitarian law in civilian populated areas cause they're incredibly imprecise.

    In addition to that the UN investigation into it found plenty of evidence of summary executions of people who were in captivity. So torture, summary executions etc all happened and the investigations don't call that into question. So once again, you either aren't very well informed or are intentionally spreading disinformation and veering into conspiracy theories.

    https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/dozens-bucha-civilians-killed-flechettes-metal-darts-russian-artillery



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,840 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    You can literally see the red line in that picture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,840 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Care to link to those original french forensics .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    It's a very black and white situation, as was the attack on Pearl harbour. Russia is an aggressor state that uses unrestrained violence: There is a perpetrator and there is a victim - it's very black and white.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    AA



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Somewhere in the 150,000 documented war crimes, maybe send a team…

    As of November 2024, the Ukrainian Prosecutor General’s Office has documented more than 150,000 alleged war crimes committed by Russian forces in Ukraine. This number continues to grow as experts highlight systemic breaches of international law, including attacks on civilians, critical infrastructure, and cases of torture and sexual violence.

    https://www.voanews.com/a/human-rights-groups-collect-evidence-of-russian-war-crimes-in-ukraine/7877358.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    There is a Guardian article from April 2022 on that. Dont have it handy sorry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭zv2


    Post edited by zv2 on

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    If Russia was using unrestrained violence there'd be hundreds of thousands if not millions of civilian casualties already. So thats just a trite phrase in any case.

    You should look up the German assault on Russia in 1941 if you want to put meaning to 'unrestrained'.

    Also that black & white thingy is what you guys keep telling to yourselves and it's in fact the only thing that holds your house of cards of an argument together. Thats why you keep repeating it like a mantra. Unfortunately it doesnt make it any truer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,089 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The extent of the civilian casualties in the areas under Russian occupation is unknown. Any estimate of casualties declares this but you ignore it.

    Russia has launched unrestrained indiscriminate barrages against civilian targets.

    You refuse to condemn them and instead excuse them as any vatnik would with deliberate spreading of disinformation and muddying the waters.

    The reason civilian casualties arent higher is because of the extreme lengths Ukraine goes to in protecting its civilians against war crime attacks. So it is the actions of Ukraine that restrains casualties not Russia.

    Incredibly you then try to use this to defend Russia against criticism. Any excuse any tactic will be deployed so you dont have to criticise Russian atrocities and war crimes.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Mod: Please find the source or stop with this line of discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭Field east


    if this war is not seen as a Pure Jet Black and whiter than White then I do not know what. A black and white situation is?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,294 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And I'd say you're making every effort to downplay war crimes and genocide. History and current affairs experts have argued that Russia's actions and language amounts to that of a genocidal state. Meanwhile you parrot claims of "false flags" but run away from it after being called out.

    One thing I'm finding interesting is your sudden reference to deaths caused by artillery attacks. It sounds distinctly like you've done some weird adaptation of the Russian claim that Ukraine was responsible for the Bucha Massacre. Cause one of the first results from a quick Google around "Bucha Massacre artillery" leads to a website debunking the propaganda. The massacre was very much so caused by Russia and it wasn't just via artillery. So what exactly have the investigations exposed? There's no question that Russia committed war crimes there that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

    https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/bucha-massacre-was-orchestrated-by-ukrainian-forces/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭zv2


    I don't know the details. One of the military commentators on Sky News mentioned it.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Aaaaaaannnyway … back in the present day, whether one believes they're accurate or not, there's a whole slew of videos being published this last few days of North Koreans assaulting Ukrainian positions and being ruthlessly picked off. Plus at least one story of "replenishment" being needed on account of the extent of their losses.

    Watching one of the videos, I was sort of feeling sorry for those NK lads. Whatever training they've had, the sheltered lives they've lived before means they could hardly have been adequately prepared for coming face-to-face with a monstrous buzzing flying thing that is very deliberately chasing you and trying to kill you.

    Given that this is the first real Drone War the world has known, and at this stage no-one has more experience in drone warfare than the Ukrainians, you'd wonder how wide of the mark NK military training is for the modern era. Are their generals out in the field with the troops, or are they sitting comfortably in their bunkers? Will the surviving infantry be believed if/when they get home and talk about the hell that is a Western battlefield?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭SoapMcTavish




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,423 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I don't really know either, having no reference, However I have seen simulations regarding Taiwan and possible US invasion of China, which would fail. Basically neither country could invade and occupy the other…China is massive obviously. More realistic is a naval blockade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    It is really is very simple, but you seem to believe yourself too smart to get it.

    Or you have strong connections to + sympathy for that Russian world or "sphere of influence" as you call it, so don't particularly want to get it.

    The ones with (I judge) these kinds of connections that have posted here believe Ukraine is and always will be very firmly part of that world for good or ill, and should have known its place (as a quiet little satrap sitting under Putin's/Russia's thumb), and is now being put in that place by force. Victim blaming at international level basically.

    As someone else said to you before on this thread, if you were Irish you might naturally "get it" I think….

    Seems to be just harder for people from the world's empires and the giant countries + great powers all used to casually brow beating, and sometimes crushing their weaker neighbours under foot to empathise.

    Their nation/country has almost always had the might to bully their way (or exterminate/incorporate) smaller neighbours so they IMO see less of a problem with the human cost and victims of such policies once you can get away with it - their country only ever ran into troubles when they brushed up against the world's other "great powers" and their "spheres".

    On your last bit about how "we" are so much worse than Russia, the US is not the only country supporting Ukraine here, and even if they were I don't think any bad actions the US has done in the last 20 years equal what Russia is getting up to in Ukraine today - even including invasion of Iraq and Global War on Terror etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,840 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looking that way isnt it

    Im sure the North Koreans will adapt over time, but they'll take some heavy losses until they do. It really is like a play from the Korean war, tactics that are well out of date in the modern era of war. South Koreans must be taking notes.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    You gotta be kidding me. You're all over the place.

    Firstly making wild assumptions about me as if my person and my origin which you know nothing about had anything to do with it. Got news for you I know plenty of people who would think the worldviews presented on this thread are at best infantile and at worst nuts.

    Secondly almost nothing rivals US' arrogance, murder and deceit. They are an evil empire and the only reason they hold on to their power is their bigger stick. Without it they'd be toast in the morning and they know it too. Thats why they're so desperate to keep pressing forward. Only problem is they're likely to drag us all down into their abyss if they are threatened to lose their hegemony. I'm 100% in my belief that the Russians would back down if push came to shove 'cos they're not crazy. In fact they have already shown us that 35 years ago. But the Yanks would blow up the world if they thought they had one man standing in the end.

    Thirdly your opinions about bigger powers and smaller ones under their thumb are childish. These relationships are simply a matter of fact. Ever heard of Cuba? I dare say Ukraine was doing fairly alright up to 2014. And I'd say they would still be doing fairly alright but they had to let themselves be used as a bear poker did they? Let their ultra nationalists call the shots, start sh1t with their own minorities, ban languages and stuff. In fact surely you must have an opinion about that dont you?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,413 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It says something that your defence of Russian atrocities in Bucha is that rather than a deliberate genocide, they simply indiscriminately fired anti-personnel artillery at a civilian populace.



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