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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    For those who don't dismiss battlefield accounts as unproven fake news unless they've got the nod from their Man in Moscow, here's another chilling observation of how the North Koreans are even worse than the Russians at "Special Military Operations" in the real world:

    Full text for those who don't want to inflate Twitter traffic figures:

    "From what I saw yesterday, it seemed to me that the Koreans were not providing first aid to their wounded. I saw a scene: an FPV flew into a group of 3 Koreans, two fell and did not get up, but showed signs of life. The third looked at them, stood, waited for the others to come up and went with them further across the field.

    At the same time, individual Koreans were gathering their own in the field and dragging them on stretchers along the ground back along the same route they had come up. I saw one crowd of those still alive walking parallel to the stream of those who were dragging the bodies. A kind of conveyor belt of death.

    Sometimes I watched a shell explode 20 meters from their groups, to which they did not react in any way and continued to walk at the same pace. In the photo, the moment when one of the groups got tired of walking across the field under fire and sat down to rest. The impression is that they still don't understand what to fear in war."



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I love how you consider Russia simply not invading Ukraine as somehow a worse outcome for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭SoapMcTavish




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭brickster69


    There is no western superpowers just the US. Nato is effectively incapable to do the job it was designed for, the only chance is for talks to resume that takes the security concerns of all parties and not just keep on rejecting one sides which has been the case for 30 years.

    Ukraine is not going to get in Nato and would cause massive problems for the EU.

    I think Trump and his team understand this, European's certainly cannot comprehend this reality yet.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Nato is effectively incapable to do the job it was designed for

    Given not a single NATO nation has been invaded and very many NATO adjacent nations have been I would argue this is incredibly stupid.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Field east


    as that fellow on Russian TV said about 6 to nine months ago the RU strategy is to put out there lies , truths , half lies , half truths , partial truths. A mixture of lies and truths in some statements, a mixture of truths and lies in other statements, - I hope that I have now confused you that you do not know what to believe- and mixed in with aGOOD dose of deflection and as much of the past as it can stitch in AND THERE YOU HAVE IT IN ONE LONG STATEMENT. Or words to that effect from the presenter - Ru/putin mouthpiece.
    he then went on to say that the WEST, etc, would not be ableto desipherwhat is real and not real



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,545 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Your question was if other countries could do what russia is doing despite sanctions and the answer is yes, pretty much all of them could pick on a smaller country and fight for 3 years, most wouldn't because it's an extremely stupid tactic that would cause them to be ridiculed across the world.

    I also took your definition as superpower as stemming from describing russia as a superpower, which they probably aren't anymore, but if they are, then a lot of the NATO countries would also be superpowers, under your terms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭zv2


    It seems to me that 50% of Russian shells are wasted making holes in fields.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    This the same NATO Putin was begging help him rescue his troops in Syria only a few days ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Mannesmann


    Those Russians and their equipment should be handed over to Ukraine to look after.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭denismc


    Christ, that's grim, it looks like something out of "Game of Thrones"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭zv2


    Seems to be the Russian fuel tanks.

    "40 🇷🇺 fuel tanks in Zaporizhzhia were destroyed by 🇺🇦 security forces, including the railway line. That was the supply for Russians for which they can now wait a long time. 👍
    Source: Army TV"

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    And close to 100% of their more sophisticated missiles are wasted making holes in hospitals, schools and other civilian infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,842 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    3rd fuel ship down. Not a good day for the Russians

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Any chance you could set out the security concerns of the one side that has been rejected for 30 years?

    I mean, you're surely not implying that the nuclear-armed, Second Greatest Army In The World, the one with almost limitless resources, and a foot in three continents was seriously worried about its security?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭brickster69


    It has been well known since for decades by skilled diplomats with great understanding on Russia's views. Unfortunately these concerns were never taken on board. I think in this case Europe understood everything a lot better than the US / UK did but ended up going along with them the last decade.

    George Kennan 1990's

    Bill Burns 2008 Current CIA director and former ambassador to Moscow" nyet means nyet " in his memo to Condalezza Rice, just 3 weeks later Bush formally invited Ukraine and Georgia towards Nato membership.

    nyet.jpg

    Robert Gates memoirs - Served 6 US presidents in CIA and NSC

    "Were the Europeans, much less the Americans, willing to send their sons and daughters to defend Ukraine or Georgia? Hardly. So NATO expansion was a political act, not a carefully considered military commitment, thus undermining the purpose of the alliance and recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests."

    Gates, continued: "During the Cold War, to avoid military conflict between us, we had to take Soviet interests into account, maneuvering carefully wherever those interests were affected. When Russia was weak in the 1990s and beyond, we did not take Russian interests seriously."

    A bit more reading for you.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,092 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nope.

    Note the language cited - "perceived"... "interests"

    Zero proof of any genuine threat to Russia.

    Your sources actually contradict your claims.

    Russia has proven it to be a pack of lies by withdrawing its forces from nato borders to send to Ukraine.

    Concerns about escalation from NATO expansion were all dealt with in the NATO Russia Founding Act.

    Russia has nothing to fear from nato expansion militarily unless it all along planned to reduce its neighbours to vassal states and see nato as a block to that.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭brickster69


    It's all down on paper from those involved at the highest level. Give it a read.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Field east


    it will be of interest to see how the Alawite sect - especially in their homeland on that western coastal strip of Syria will fare out along with the sea ports and air strips there that the Ru had ‘ Bashir’s full permission to use - 99.9% to bomb the s—t out of Aleppo, Homs ,Iblis and anything else that ‘moved or did not move ‘. There was a continuous and unrelenting bombardment , from the skies,by Russian bombers , spray planes on all groups opposed to Bashir.

    If the aAlawites ‘are left alone ‘ by the incoming administration - HTS led presumably,-and Ru are allowed to retain its ‘facilities’ there then is it because of Turkey’s influence over the victors?

    If the Ru are allowed to ‘stay”in Syria then the ‘services ‘ that it will provide from there will 100% pivot towards it’ African ‘interests’. I understand that Russian’s involvement in a significant no of African countries involves working ‘very closely’ with governments - mainly to keep them in control of their countries. I wonder if The HTS will be in support of this. I would see a problem if some of these regimes are Bashirlike and, for example , keeping the Sunni opposition ‘in check’



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Russia's economy peaked circa 2010. Even with its couple of hundred million people and vast natural resources, outside the enclaves of St Petersburg and Moscow(and even within those the real cash is contained within a tiny group), it remained dirt poor with living standards, conditions and even longevity stats notably below other developed nations.

    This of course meant it was "better" suited to take on sanctions. If you're already used to being relatively poor, being a little poorer doesn't hit so hard. At first. It also means pivoting to a war economy is easier. Especially when other manufacturing is hardly lighting up the world. Put it another way; how many finished goods or services have you owned that were Made In Russia? That would be sweet bugger all. Some of the fuel in your tank and plastic derivatives wrapping goods made in other nations and that's your lot.

    And if you want to speak of comparisons: Italy actually makes things and provides services. Has a much higher standard of living, better wages, cheaper food, a currency actually worth something, more civil rights and press freedom, less corruption and Italians are healthier and live longer, over ten years longer in the case of men. And all that with a population a third of the size, a country less than 2% the size and as you note "very little natural resources". Russia should be more like Norway, or at least on that track, but it isn't. Why? Those CIA devils again?

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭zv2


    Countries joining nato are simply none of Russia's business. The Russians think they can expand by invasion but when countries join nato to escape Russian expansion the Russians behave as if they have a bucket stuck up their ass. Fuk'em. Maybe if Russia gives up the countries they invaded we can reach a happy medium. Russia's objections are pure arrogance. Russia, give up Buryat, Tuva etc, get out of Georgia, Transnistria, Chechnya and we can have a grown up's discussion. F'ing infantile murderers I hope you get burned to the ground.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,092 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Russia still hasnt honoured agreements to remove forces from Transnistria.

    But we have posts here blaming Ukraine for saying Russia cant be trusted to negotiate in good faith.

    Blatant lies.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭scottser


    The other 50% is used turning once-functioning towns into rubble during their 'liberation'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭brickster69


    So if Russia and China and a dozen others made a military defensive alliance and invited Mexico and Venezuela to join you would say the same thing when the US had a mega tantrum ?

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    How is that alliance with Russia working out for Armenia or Syria this week?

    as I outlined earlier Irish goods export totals are now almost same as Russian export totals (usual caveats about Russian figures on anything apply)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,092 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If.

    Why would it happen? The US doesnt make the demands and interfere the way Russia does with countries such as Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia it still sees as vassal states - despite signing agreements to the contrary.

    The US would be right in looking for agreement similar to the NATO Russia Founding Act on stationing of forces and weapons systems to avoid escalation and possible use as a staging ground for aggression.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭brickster69


    If, yes. Should the US inevitable concerns be listened to or simply ignored ?

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    IMG_5578.jpeg

    25 years of dear leader



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭zv2


    No. If they stay out of Europe, Ukraine etc. they can do what they like. But who would they be defending against? NATO is not trying to invade China.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,092 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I already pre-enpted that in my previous post but your posts continually feign ignorance at any mention of the NATO Russia Founding Act.

    Its existence proves how much of the Russian justifications for its illegal invasion and plunder of Ukraine are blatant self serving lies.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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