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Missing 8yr Old Kyran Durnin - presumed dead *READ Mod Note Added to OP*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,654 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I'd guess she's not in the clear yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭jay1988


    You'd assume the classic and a file is being prepared for the DPP should follow.

    Hopefully the relevant authorities are tracking her every move in case she decides to run.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    The grandmother is just as bad, she knows something but intentionally lied to mislead An Garda Síochána. I hope she gets jailed as well as the mother.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Jesus, people here need to unclench a bit. It's extremely common for suspects of serious crime to be released without charge while the Gardai continue to build their case. Far better that than for the Gardai to charge her prematurely, only to have the DPP refuse to prosecute the case due to a lack of evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,458 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You'd assume the classic and a file is being prepared for the DPP should follow.

    The file started at the beginning of this case.

    It's a strange one, they have no doubt the boy is deceased but seem to be a bit off yet piecing it together.

    The Times reporting they have not ruled out accidental death.

    It's extremely common for suspects of serious crime to be released without charge while the Gardai continue to build their case.

    It wouldn't be extremely common at all. For them to her arrest her again new evidence would have to go in front of a Judge to sanction it.

    Also I'm sure now she is free to leave the state again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭I told ya


    The Gardai can rearrest her. They don't need to get a judge to sanction it.

    In general, grounds for rearrest:

    1. For the purpose of arrest, charge and caution.
    2. To put new evidence to the suspect. What constitutes new evidence? Depends, if they find his body, material witness comes forward,…

    I've posted before that we have to take this on trust, that the Gardai know what they're doing. They are the only state agency with the remit to deal with these matters.

    I just hope it's not another Ian Bailey fiasco.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,458 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    10.—(1) Where a person arrested on suspicion of having committed an offence is detained pursuant to section 4 and is released without any charge having been made against him, he shall not—

    (a) be arrested again for the same offence, or

    (b) be arrested for any other offence of which, at the time of the first arrest, the member of the Garda Síochána by whom he was arrested suspected him or ought reasonably to have suspected him,

    except on the authority of a justice of the District Court who is satisfied on information supplied on oath by a member of the Garda Síochána not below the rank of superintendent that further information has come to the knowledge of the Garda Síochána since the person's release as to his suspected participation in the offence for which his arrest is sought. A person arrested under that authority shall be dealt with pursuant to section 4 .

    She can be arrested if the DPP go forward. That is a different procedure, made aware of the charges and brought to court for a bail hearing if it is sought.

    If she is not in the state this would be more complicated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 63 ✭✭Torcaill


    A man now arrested in the east of the country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    If they were detained for questioning originally, they can be rearrested for the purpose of charge. And it does happen - Richard Satchwell is just one notable example. And I think pretty much all of the men who were eventually convicted of Tom Dooley's murder in Kerry were initially released without charge.

    My point is, I suspect the Gardai know what they're doing with this case, and people shouldn't just assume that "released without charge" = "she got away with it" and break out their pitchforks accordingly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    What's the betting this fella has the book thrown at him at the mother gets off scot-free.



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    RTE news : Man arrested in Kyran Durnin investigation

    http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/1212/1486067-kyrin-durnin-investigation/



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    You have no idea who the man is, what his involvement is/was or hers either. Wait and see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭I told ya


    Ok, that's the letter of the law then.

    (b) is an interesting one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,458 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If they were detained for questioning originally, they can be rearrested for the purpose of charge

    I know. I said it in the post you replied to.

    She can be arrested if the DPP go forward. That is a different procedure, made aware of the charges and brought to court for a bail hearing if it is sought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭I told ya


    An arrest and two properties currently being searched.

    So, hopefully more progress.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Assuming the person of interest didn't immediately confess, then charging someone with murder in the absence of a body or any other evidence must be incredibly complicated.

    The absolute worst thing that could happen here is that someone would get away with something over some procedural f**k-up. I'm sure the gardai know exactly how much scrutiny will be on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭micar


    Anyone know what part of Drogheda.

    The maternal grandmother lives on Hand St



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,458 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If the Irish Times are to believed and the Guards are working on several theories including accidental death I imagine the upgrade to murder which is never taken lightly was done for several reasons including to unlock resources for the case, which they seem to have now in abundance.

    It's complicated to get a beyond a reasonable doubt conviction on murder without the murder victim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    So basically the Gardai don't have a bulls notion what happened. Whether it was accidental or murder.

    Well done lads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,023 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    theres no body and the women involved are uncooperative pathological liars. Its an insanely hard case tbf.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭gipi


    Droghedalife online paper has posted the address on Facebook - it's in the Marley's Lane area.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    How do you know what the Gardaí know or don't know? They are not likely to be sharing it all in the media or anywhere else.

    I'm bemused by some people's idea that everything in the papers is the sum total of everything that is known to Gardaí investigating a crime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,458 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's not CSI Drogheda.

    It won't be wrapped up in an hour plus commercials.

    Could well be the DPP never take a murder case.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Mod: @Gusser09, there is an ongoing Garda investigation in this case, the details of this are widely reported. Please stop the "Guards don't have a clue" rhetoric, it doesn't add to the thread and the investigating officers will have more knowledge than is reported.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭Get Real


    How on earth do you know what's in the file to be sent to the DPP? There could be guards in that investigation who know well who has done it.

    Such is our legal system, that on serious matters, a file is sent to the DPP. Generally, the guard in that file will make a recommendation, and it could be "charge X with murder" With a charge as serious as murder, and the implications a conviction for same can have on a person's life, unless a guard walked into a murder scene with blood all over the walls and the suspect still there, it'd be highly unusual to just charge them on a whim. Incompetent in fact.

    For a case where Tusla staff reported someone being alive two days before, when in fact they could have been murdered on any day in the 720 odd days preceding it, yes, a genuine well done lads from me.

    There's a huge fault here, not by the people who were handed nothing to go on. Anything could have happened that boy in theory, and all the people who had connections to him. Or people who said they saw him, when in fact they didn't. So nailing down times, several possibilities- murder, neglect, accident and subsequent cover up, even where he died, establishing it was in this country etc.

    There'll be another headline in time that someone has been charged for this. Processes of the legal system should not be so easily presumed to be nothing has been discovered.

    The perpetrator is to blame firstly, then the family. Then whoever was so incompetent as to lose track of him for up to two years, yet state it was only two days, possibly to cover their own arse.

    The last people to blame are the ones who something was finally disclosed to after such a f up. Who's job it is then to row back years and compile a file on it. You think the person or people doing that don't want to see someone held responsible and convicted possibly more than us all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,313 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Wasn't there new evidence in the Satchwell case, building work done in the house after Tina's dissappearance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,195 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Packrat


    There was, and only for a young guard who pondered over how nicely the house was presented and how sometimes people do a bit of DIY themselves, she'd still be where she was put.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,902 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Man released without charge over Kyran Durnin murder case



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I'd imagine it's a lot less complicated in the case of a child. The reason it's difficult for an adult is because it may be hard to disprove the claim that they person left of their own accord and is living happily somewhere else and simply doesn't want to be found. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, that tends to be the default assumption for an adult.

    None of that is feasible for a child. If the official carer cannot present the child to social services, it's a fair assumption that something bad has happened to it. The longer that goes on, the more likely it is that the child is dead.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



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