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Peter McVerry Trust has 'financial issues'.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,025 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You may recall we discussed this 4 months ago and at the time I said -

    I agree he may well end up being barred from even serving as a board member. It's fairly academic given that he is 80.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭csirl


    Any organisation that gets the majority of its funding from State contracts shouldnt be eligible for charity status. They are a contractor of the State and should be subject to the same rigours as other contractors including having to tender for their contracts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,852 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Reading the report, it is possible he is guilty of far more than that. Somebody should face criminal charges for what happened.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He is in his early 80s, I doubt anything will happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    That the nub of the issue; the State have given up using local authorities to build housing and have divested billons of euro per year into this charity sector.

    Like an area of human life, when there is huge amount of other people money floating about with loose regulation the vulture (auditor and solicitor here) come circling for a big slice

    I think it's likely McVerry is just an honest fool taken for a ride by the suits who saw their chance, knowing the likelihood of actual repercussion for white collar crime here is tiny.

    Part of the blame must rest with a dpeartment who saw fit to had billons over without the oversight to protect OUR money.

    Like the local man who missed a penalty in a county final years back and we ended up losing the game, and the local sage said to him in pub after "it's not you I blame at all but the (unt that let you take it"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,311 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    which just moves the question to "why do we have hundreds of disability organisations" ?

    We should be providing people with public services, not pseudo-charities funded by the taxpayer

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,025 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It is possible that criminal charges will follow in time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I only scanned the report - and I've zero experience at all in corporate or charity reporting and accountability, but when I looked at the conclusions it read to me ,that the trust systems were crap , leaving everything wide open to almost anyone who worked there to do what ever they wanted , not that everyone did ,

    As a bord member of obviously Peter McVery himself should have done more to bring about clarity and accountability, or got out - and I'm not sure if thats a civil or legal crime .

    But - I don't think it mentioned anywhere that he actively enabled or benefited from any of the dodgy dealings, not that thats an excuse for being inept or ignorant of his responsibilities ,

    ( Obviously this was a 5 or 6 page report,on a limited investigation, thats being careful not to slander or blame anyone )

    Is there any point in going after him specifically - probably not ,

    Is there a value in going after the entire board, and see what comes out , probably..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,852 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    He was company secretary until recently, making him responsible for the company's compliance with the law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Fair enough,

    And in honesty , it was his baby from the start , I assume to a degree he brought in the various board members (or at least had a strong say on the appointments ) , and if he was company secretary, he was or should of been abreast of company activities and policies ect.

    Is there any training or education on duties and responsibilities of being a board member , or board officer for either charities or limited companies - feic it,if you get a job on a building site you have to do a safe pass course , a restaurant you have to do a 1 day HAACP course , not that it gives you great insight but you learn what's the minimum expected of you by law ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    History has been very clear that a lot of men and women who took "vows" were more than happy to take advantage of their position.

    Just saying he is a priest is not the defense you seem to think it is. We have all seen what priests can do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭cmac2009


    Against a charity, in this country. Highly unlikely.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There are no training requirements to run or be on a charity board. I worked on the accounts for a charity for several years. Most of the board consisted of HSE workers... It would be like herding cats. They don't like being told, you can't do this, you can't pay them, they are on the board. A lad with a proper project management background became the chairman for a few years. Had them draw up and approve budgets. I still remember being complained to that he would not let them expend an extra 5k, without getting it fully approved and deciding which if the existing pre approved budgets it was coming out of. He stepped back from the role, as soon as he reasonably could. One of the last straws for me was when they bought an industrial dishwasher, with no thoughts of all the extra costs in installing such a machine. No common sense at all. Rebuild the kitchen to fit it, run 3 phase power to it, extractor fan required though the roof, grease trap for the waste. Basic stuff...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    As you say being a priest is neither a defense , not a reason to not prosecute , but I don't think anyone has accused him of personally enriching himself , or deliberately enriching others ,

    Thats not to say that his inactions ( knowingly or unknowingly ) didn't allow others to take advantage,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    I think as company secretary you are obliged legally to have (or hire) certain skills and knowledge. But remain legally responsible for actions, and presumably inactions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Is the Auditors PI insurance in play to repay any loss to charity as a result of his actions?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You have responsibilities, but there is no training required. But Revenue are the first to tell their customers ignorance is not an excuse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,025 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    History hopefully will be kind to Fr. McVerry.

    I don't believe he has taken money from the Trust.

    Your attempt to conflate his actions with others crimes is misguided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭csirl


    There's loads of governance training available for the charity/voluntary sector and training is recommended.

    Many of the State funders of the sector offer free governsnce training courses or pay for board members to attend training courses. There's no excuse for not availing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,025 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's a possibility depending on the outcome of any criminal investigation that may take place.

    Charities do not have have any exemption under law.

    Reference the case of Bothar as an example.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭griffin100


    The training for Directors is usually arranged or given by the Company Secretary, is this case the man himself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,547 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    In principle, I agree.

    Butthat means making it illegal for anyone to say "the government isn't looking after this need, let's find a way to get the job done".

    Which I don't think we'd really want either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,311 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The so-called charity has been bailed out. It's a loss to the taxpayer.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,311 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    He is responsible for what occurred during his role as company secretary, there is no getting away from that nor should there be. Can we park the "just a simple priest", "vow of poverty" etc bollox, it's irrelevant. He was willing to become and remain the figurehead of a multi-million euro "charity" business named after him, and not only that but to be an officer of that business with very significant legal responsibilities.

    A business which has been funded with large sums of taxpayers' money and been bailed out by these taxpayers due to its extremely poor governance.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,311 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Oh FFS

    They are more than welcome to do that. What they're not entitled to do is set up their own pet project and then get the taxpayer to fund it

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,547 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Most don't start with taxpayer funding. They start voluntary and donor funded, prove that the service can br delivered. Then they lobby that it should be government funded.

    The alternative to government funded is that the staff become state employees. Which would usually cost more, and deliver less service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Corporate governance issues seem to be everywhere , and very little comeback or sanction legally or civily , you'd think at the very least the regulatory body should be able to apply sanctions , like barring someone from being a director or company officer for x amount of time ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Your repeated attempts to handwave away his culpability is misguided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,025 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Nobody is denying that Fr. McVerry had responsibilities for as board member and company secretary of the Trust.

    However you seem to be agreived that I am taking a more balanced view of his contribution to Irish society.

    I didn't say he is "just a simple priest".

    His vow of poverty is not irrelevant seeing as it is an important part of his life's work for the poor and disadvantaged.

    All his worldly needs are met by his order and he takes no money from the Trust.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,025 ✭✭✭✭elperello




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