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Conor McGregor Megathread *Mod Warning in OP Updated 20th April*

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Everyone is entitled to legal representation and that is a keystone of the legal system. Was Gareth Peirce wrong to take the case of a convicted bomber? Is a defence lawyer in Russia wrong for trying to defend their client?

    It is not the job of a solicitor or defence lawyer to decide guilt. Their job is to put forward a legal case to defend their client.

    mcgregor is a rapist scumbag, we know that much. Does that mean he now will always be guilty and doesn't deserve a fair trial?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    His legitimacy as a potential witness was at best undermined by virtue of the fact he himself was being sued



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    The judge yesterday decided to please the cultural prevailing wind , nothing about his decision to not award Lawrence costs is in keeping with procedural norms in a civil case,the judge acted in a manner beyond arbitrary

    Deeply strange



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It makes a fair bit of sense given the fact there's strong evidence that Lawrence made the claim in the first place to cover for McGregor. She always made it clear that she hadn't slept with him. You're trying to introduce culture wars nonsense into this which I'd find far stranger TBH.

    So they could have called him as a witness... You've got no evidence that they were certain to lose. In fact, going into the case it was always looking bad for McGregor. Her injuries including the tampon painted a pretty horrible picture. On top of that, McGregor's own story had actively changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,432 ✭✭✭✭walshb




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Interesting how you see an agenda with respect of Lawrence but none when it comes to Nikita Hand,if she didn't believe his claim that he slept with her,she could have just said he was lieing,she didn't have to sue him,she ( or her team) elected to , besides the jury found Lawrence not liable so it follows that he should receive costs

    The judge actually undermined the jury yesterday

    The judge was influenced not by text book law but the #i believe her narrative



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It doesn't necessarily follow that she covers his costs, they just painted him into a corner. The jury ultimately believes her, she clearly stated that she never slept with him and the jury appears to believe that as well. None of Lawrence's DNA was found, McGregor's was.

    I'm also pretty confident you're not an expert on civil case law. Costs are not always awarded in this scenario and it was never certain that he would have costs awarded. It also likely didn't help his case when he defamed her last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    The jury did not believe Nikita Hand with respect of Lawrence,the judge yesterday effectively undermined the jury with his arbitrary comments about Lawrence ( following his clearance of wrongdoing by the jury no less) and decision not to award costs

    It was a shocking day for proper administration of law by a high court judge



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You really need to read about the case from an impartial source because you're demonstrating a complete absence of knowledge about it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭crusd


    Remind me where this finding of innocence was?

    The jury believed Nikita hand.

    She said she had no memory of having sex with Lawrence. Lawrence said they had consensual sex. If she couldn't remember she was not in a fit state to consent therefore it was rape. Therefore the jury appear to not believe him when he says they had sex so therefore he was not liable for rape. Sadly he wasn't up for being a lying scumbag.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 824 ✭✭✭GSBellew


    Playing devils advocate here before I get jumped on.

    If what you are saying in the first paragraph is correct, on the assumption that Nikita Hand is to be considered a reliable witness and her testimony should be considered to be the true version of events, would suing somebody for rape that they categorically by their own testimony had not had sexual relations with not be a false rape accusation?

    How can you sue someone for something you state has not happened, would an action for defamation not be the correct route for redress in this instance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Eoineo


    I think you've misread what happened here.

    James Lawrence presented himself in the Garda station after Conor McGregor was questioned by appointment, and stated that he had consensual relations with Nikita Hand. His legal advice was paid for by McGregor from day one. She maintained at all times that she never had sex with James Lawrence.

    So it followed that either she never had relations and potentially he was the 'fall guy' for Conor McGregor, OR, she did have sex with James Lawrence but could not remember and therefore it was not consented to.

    The jury had 2 options here.

    1. He did have sex with her and it was without her consent - he would have been found liable.
    2. He did not have sex with her - he was not liable

    The jury found that he did not have sex with her and was not liable. The jury believed Nikita Hand who maintained at all times that she did not have sex with James Lawrence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    I don't need to know every specific detail of this case to know that if you sue someone in the civil court and loose ,in accordance with procedure you shoulder the other person's costs

    The judge abandoned that principle for political reasons



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Arbitrary doesn't cover what you just wrote there and Nikita's reasons for suing him were balderdash on the face of it

    " I don't think we had sex but if he says we did ,then I didn't consent so that's rape "

    Talk about concocting a creative narrative as a cover for removing Lawrence from the role of friendly witnesses for McGregor, her team took Lawrence out of the game by pursuing this fanciful angle and despite the jury rejecting it ,the judge absolves Nikita Hand of paying Lawrence costs, outrageous



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Political reasons? What political reasons? What are you talking about? 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,432 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    In the professional opinion of the judge, the jury found Lawrence not liable, not because they disbelieved Ms. Hand, but because they disbelieved Lawrence’s claim that any sexual intercourse occurred. Did you not read the judge’s summation?

    The jury do NOT have to explain why they reached their verdicts/results



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,029 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    I did and I believe it to be a wholly arbitrary summation,the judges decision yesterday further underscore his outrageous bias



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Oh please, there was a trial by the great and the good of progressive Ireland even before the verdict last month,the judge yesterday went with the prevailing wind



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Hand made clear that she didn't sleep with him. He claims he had consensual sex with her.

    Makes sense, he's claiming consensual sex and she's made clear it couldn't have been consensual particularly since she has no memory of such an event. You can carry on with your effort to vilify her. But Lawrence is the guy who concocted the story to cover for a rapist.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,432 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    So where did the judge cross a line, act improperly? He followed the law.

    It’s extremely unlikely the jury believed McGregor inflicted that rape on Ms. Hand, and also then believing that Ms. Hand went on a little later to have consensual sex twice with Lawrence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Hand could have merely dismissed Lawrence as a liar , instead she sued him , suing him served a different purpose

    Lawrence name is clear , it's not a good look to undermine the jury, the judge did it unfortunately



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    The jury found against Hand with respect of her case against Lawrence,you are overlooking that elephant in the room and arbitrarily reaching other conclusions , that's bad law



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Question for you, do you agree with the jury's verdict on McGregor? Lawrence is not a victim in this story, he was happy to cover for a rapist and to interfere with a criminal case by claiming he had slept with her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    No I do not agree with it , Miss Hand was an extremely messy witness but the jury found him liable, the same jury found Lawrence not liable yet the judge yesterday abandoned standard procedure and Lawrence didn't get his costs which further underscores my opinion that this was a cultural trial



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,432 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I understand where you are coming from, and I too would like a more clear and definitive ruling…..as in the actual jury detailing why exactly they found Lawrence not liable.

    It's very likely they found him not liable because they disbelieved his claim. If this is the jury's reason, then this absolutely vindicates Ms. Hand, and sullies Lawrence

    Now, if they found him not liable because they believed he had consensual sex with Ms. Hand, I would find this extraordinary. I think it's very unlikely this to be the case. If it was the case, it really begs the question (not sure exactly the right phrase here), how could they then find McGregor liable. She hardly was raped by McGregor and then hours later is having consensual sex with Lawrence. This narrative just doesn't add up.

    The judge opines that Lawrence and McGregor concocted a lie here to try win….the judge I think is right



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And you're not the jury, if the judge actually behaved improperly that's grounds for appeal. Honestly it just seems like you're trying to muddy the waters around a rape. You're ignoring the fact that this is one of many accusations against McGregor, previous women were intimidated out of pursuing cases. The medical evidence was also incredibly strong and his DNA was found. Do you often hear of consensual sex that results in the surgical removal of a tampon?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    You don't loose a case against someone if the jury believes you so your claim that the jury didn't believe Lawrence had sex with her is odd and frankly not credible

    If your take was credible, hand would have sued him for defamation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    McGregors character should not be relevant to how the judge acts in relation to dealing with the fallout of the jury's decision re_ Lawrence

    The judge chose to engage in arbitrary conclusions about the relationship between McGregor and Lawrence in order to cover his very strange decision not to award Lawrence costs

    The judge had no business doing that as Lawrence wasn't part of the case Hand took against McGregor, had Lawrence been called as a witness for McGregor but McGregor still lost , the judge would have been within his right to make claims of the pair of them " being in lockstep"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,404 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Just pointing out that it's quite clear what happened in this case, it's quite clear what the judge said yesterday, it's extremely clear who the victim is in this case and it's extremely clear that there's one absolute scumbag and another who decided to lie to back up his mate.

    So once you have a couple of posters popping in being contrary, it's obvious what kinds of posters these are by analysing their language. Once they start talking about "agendas" and "narratives" it gives them away.

    It's best not to feed them in my opinion.



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