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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What does making up calls mean? Wouldn't they just repeat ones?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,865 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think the argument is that they had so many lineouts that they had used all/most of their calls twice already and clearly thought the Aussies were catching on.

    It's not a great sign though.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you know how many a team typically has in the bag? 10 or so?


    The lineout is so important, i wonder why teams don't have coaches with that as their sole focus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    i do agree he is a very talented player, i just think hes a bit overrated at the same time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,981 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,981 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    He got a trial against two pretty weak nations. I don't think he showed enough to remain in the squad. He has a lot about him that's good but he's error prone and a big concern defensively. You couldn't play him against a good side right now.

    I'm not saying he won't make it and he could very well be the starter by the time the World Cup rolls around but he's not ready just yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Casey was excellent and brought much needed tempo, alongside Crowley, to take the game from Oz as has been written about extensively in media. The piece I find more confusing here on Boards is the JGP debate. He was good. He wasn’t excellent as he normally is. But he was up against it with an abundance of handling errors , a dysfunctional lineout delivery, and a poor breakdown set up. In fairness any 9 with that set of challenges to deal with is going to suffer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,981 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I completely understand what a ceiling is. He has a major weakness to fix so his ceiling isn't very high until we see improvement in that area. That's because there's been many before him who never improved defensively.

    As I said I think he will improve because he has great coaches around him at Leinster. When he shows he can defend then we can talk about how high the ceiling is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    So would you say he's good enough to play England and Wales then? Given Australia beat them this Autumn. Remind me of the teams Harry Bryne has started against?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭thePigeon_


    The drop off in JGP’s form has been post injury rather than post WC. At least in that case there’s a clear cause and it’s hopefully a dip he’ll come out of, but considering how much Ireland and Leinster rely on him it is a bit concerning.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,742 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It's a sign that teams don't fear our line out. Coaches like Joe will take EVERYTHING they can get which is what was most alarming for me about the Australia match. On another day they'd have won that match, I think it was the end of their season and the back end of a long tour and they ran out of gas and focus to let us scrape to victory. People say its easy or straight forward to fix stuff like the line out or handling errors or discipline issues that see us giving up 12+ penalties, or the frankly astounding number of turnovers we conceded this Autumn (39 over 4 games). It's not, if it was Scotland would win every 6 Nations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,990 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    How much Ireland rely on JGP has often been repeated on here, but I think it's a bit overblown tbh. Going as far back as the 2023 6 Nations, we won a GS where JGP played 100 minutes. And now, Casey has shown in SA and during the AI's that he's more than capable, and I've been saying for awhile that I think he's the natural long-term successor to JGP.

    Tbh, I think it's a bit disappointing that Casey only got, what, 22 minutes vs Tier 1 teams during the AI's?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,865 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


     On another day they'd have won that match, I think it was the end of their season and the back end of a long tour and they ran out of gas and focus to let us scrape to victory.

    I actually don't agree with this. I think they targeted the Ireland match to the detriment of their performance against Scotland. Not unlike us against Australia the first year under Joe when we were clearly targeting NZ in the game that never happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I think, the manner of our loss to NZ changed some of the original plans for the other 3 games. Too many player under performed in that game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,981 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Wales are horrendous. The only team England have beaten since last year's six nations is Japan.

    Australia and Fiji are weak. Australia had one win in the Rugby Championship this year. Scotland gave them a good beating and we just about beat them after giving them a multitude of chances to win it and they still didn't get it done.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think its laughable that prendergast would have a higher ceiling but just watching him move, like just watching how he runs and how slow he is over short distances (i'm sure in a long sprint he might get up to a good speed, but those are few and far between) its definitely questionable to me.

    Its just not a typical profile of an elite player. I think people think advanced skills at 21 means high ceiling.. i'm not sure if i agree with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Sorry but what exactly did casey do in tests v south Africa to show he is the natural successor to JGP? He played in the first test and was taken off after 60 mins when we lost. He didn't play in the 2nd test Murray started and blade came off the bench.

    He was steamrolled by Fiji 3 or 4 times in the frist few mins this November. He recovered well and played well for the rest of the game. He has a nice cameo v a tiring Australia side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    So you'll have no issues with Prendergast starting vs England then? Basically anyone bar SA, NZ and France so? That's not bad



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,742 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I like his energy ands skills but seeing him bounced around like a rag doll makes me question whether he is a legit candidate for test rugby. Its harder and harder for 9s and 10s to hide in defence the days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,990 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He was taken off, and Blade played in the 2nd Test, because Casey got injured in the first tho, right?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Casey getting put on his arse by Fijian backrows or centres isn't a concern. Think we are trying too hard to find reasons not to pick guys.

    JgP hasn't been at his best but he is still playing to a very high level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I've watched back the Australia game a few times now and I must say I must have been watching a completely different game to the ones on here who said Prendergast had a poor/average game. I suspect these were users who had already made their mind up about Prendergast pre kick off and dont have the stomach to admit they were wrong.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,346 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    A lot of teams do have specialist line out coaches.

    On the numbers, I've heard POC talk about teams having 7 or 8 basic calls, with 3 or 4 variations of each call, and then having a default call and a few trick calls, so feasibly you could have anything up to 40 or so different calls to remember.

    The problem that I saw was that we went to simplified, probably due to us being too complicated when POC first came in. We weren't fluid by any means, and there serious warning signs of people not knowing what their role was, which is criminal at this level. The last throw against NZ where there simply was no lift at all was an embarrassment. Two throws against Oz went low to the front, one messed up with no one expecting it and the other hit the lifter on the back of the head FFS.

    Like I said immediately after the Aussie game, whatever POC is doing, it's not working. We can go from securing great ball at the tail to loosing a throw to 2 (which also happened against Oz) and that shows, in my opinion, a confusion and lack of understanding by the players of the timing, movement and role.

    I think beirne at 6 was partly down to trying to secure more ball in our own line out, and I think we suffered for that in general play whilst simultaneously not getting there full benefit of having 3 locks on the field, with both vdf and Doris as viable jumping options too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Pure gold, bookmarked for use when my favorite player is being mentioned in less favorable terms than I expect.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Much better than him shying away from the tackle anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭mun1


    brilliant, Response of the year nominee for sure.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its question of perception.

    Some people see a guy who obviously runs the system well, is a lovely passer (he had one absolute beauty to Keenan) and looked very composed.

    Other people saw that and also saw the australian defense quite happily watch him do that while they ignored him as a threat and mostly contained the passing options easily.

    Your perception of his performance is going to come down to how you perceive the latter mainly. Is that a prendergast problem or could you tweak things around him.

    If the lineout was better, we'd probably win easier for example. Maybe if we had more tight power in the pack, we could punish australia tight first for standing off, and then prendergast would be a killer in this system.

    I personally think that his athletic ability probably limits his ceiling but even if his skills and organizational ability are 10%/15% better than ross byrne and he gets to be a ross byrne level athlete.. that's still easily an international starter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    Jesus Christ he is a much better athlete than Ross Byrne.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Anyone who watches him right now and thinks he is a better athlete than ross byrne right now (never mind defender, byrne is roughly 1000% better imo at that) is wishcasting imo.

    Ross Byrne could credibly play 12 in urc. You would have to be a maniac to play prendergast at 12.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Other people are restricted to you

    You have been pushing this since the game and when you didn't get a reaction the first few times you just kept banging it.



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