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Best Electricity Plan for new EV Owners

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,283 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    Hi,

    21 cents average sounded great. Accourding to my calculations it's 24.03 cents.

    However this includes 11pm to 8am (not including the EV hours), during which period virtually no electricity would be used. (Could put on washing machine etc. but would time them for the EV hours). And the average then is 26.15.


    It really is a minefield….I'm going through each provider and looking like this might still be the best for me.

    image.png
    Post edited by dinneenp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Jo Satan


    A quick question about usage limits.
    How much power can a domestic system (16KvA) pull simultaneously?
    With a three hour window from 2am to 5am

    is it possible to charge an EV at 7 kwh,

    charge a solar battery at 5 kwh,

    boost the hot water (Hitachi A2W 2 kwh?) or have heating come on

    run a dishwasher/tumble dryer/washing machine

    with background usage of 0.2 to 0.3 kwh.

    ESB Networks says this
    Maximum Import Capacity (MIC) is the maximum electricity demand level that can be catered for by your connection to our network. MIC is stated in kilovolt-amps but this value is, in most cases, similar to the number of kilowatts that may be catered for by the connection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    The main breaker in your consumer unit will be 63A. So you're looking at no more than 15kW.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,650 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    16kva is not the standard domestic connection, 12kva is.

    Assuming you have 16kva that will have a 100A networks fuse and typically an 80A consumer fuse but that can vary depending on your install. 80A*240V is 19kW so if you're drawing 15-17kW max that will allow for fluctuation in grid voltage.

    7kW for your car charger can be 8kW+ gross
    5kW into the battery
    2kW hot water (this would typically be 3kW)
    2kW dryer
    2kW for washing machine and dishwasher (allow if both pull a heat cycle at the same time, their use can vary from a few watts to 2kW)
    200w-500w base load

    This would put you at 18.5kW draw. Close to the max IMO but easily managed by staging the battery and hot water and dryer to not be on at the exact same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,534 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    1kVA is effectively 1kW

    That's the kind of statement that sends electrical engineers into a rage, but for most domestic electrical loads it's close enough

    So the sum of the loads you mentioned is over 14kW which is getting close to the limit

    However, it's worth considering a few things. First, you can just trigger the appliances at different times during the night.

    So have the heating, dishwasher and washing machine start at different times so they don't individually overload the system

    Second thing to check is if your EV charger is capable of load balancing. A lot of newer chargers will monitor the power use of the house and reduce the charging rate to stay under the limit

    The drawback is it means potentially less power into your EV

    In a 3 hour window a 16kVA connection can consume 48kWh (16*3). Of that, 21kWh can go into your car since it's limited to 7kW, and also 15kWh into your battery. So there's still 12kWh of headroom which is probably sufficient

    Since you're presumably on a smart meter, try setting everything up to run from 2-5am and see how your usage ends up in Energypal

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭fafy


    Energia have the only 4 hour low rate at night on the market, 2am to 6am, its a little higher priced than BG or Pinergy, at 7.54 inc vat, and if you pull more than a thousand units per bi monthly billing period, it increases slight for the excess to 8.67 inc vat.

    However the longer 4 hour window, adds some additional flexibility, and longer EV charging, Energia also has a lower standing charge of €236 per annum inc vat, and a much higher export rate of 24 cent, BG is only 18.50 cent for export(recently reduced)BG credit the export every 6 months, Energia do it on every bi monthly bill.

    If you are a high exporter, i’l be around 5,000 units exported this year, the Energia higher export rate of 5.50 cent more, than BG, more than makes up for their higher night rate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Jo Satan


    Thanks folks for the advice, that clears up a few questions I was asking myself about optimal setups as I want to develop good usage habits from the start

    The solar is an 8.6kwp booked in for the 12th.

    The battery is a 16x315ah being purchased tomorrow to be delivered mid December.
    The car will be 64kwh will be in bought January and 21kwh will take care of the commute plus about 20km. I can replenish the car battery on days off.

    I've edited my HDI to include the simulated export figure produced in Pylon, stuck it into Energypal. I then used the Energypal editor to add the 15 kwh x 3hrs and spread the discharge of the battery over the day with extras at 7.30 and 17.00-1900.

    Energypal indicates that pinergy will be the best supplier if I can keep it tight. Shouldn't be an issue, I seem to consistently use 10kwh per day on average including hot water and 5kwh to 10 kwh per day on heating during the winter.

    So I was figuring out load shifting to avoid day rates on the coldest days by using appliances off peak and boosting the hot water to avoid peak hour usage at 37.03 cents.
    Has anyone any idea of the efficacy of boosting the hot water? Is it worthwhile? I've a 180L tank

    The adaptive car charging sounds like the best bet as I'd have 7 charges of 21kw per week.
    I'll stagger the appliances, I wouldn't use them daily anyway.
    I've no control over the heating except the thermostats and the eco setting



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Sustained load (averaged over 10 minutes) for a 16kVA connection according to esbn is 72 amps, at nominal voltage of 230 thats 16.5kW. I'm guessing thats to allow for voltage drop when taking a lot of power. Grid only drops out of spec below 203v!

    When I'm charging my car and house batteries, the grid voltage can drop to 210-215v. 80 amps at 210v is 16.8kW, Still within limits, Devices vary, some can draw more current to make up for the lower voltage some just have a lower output (thats why you may see some cars charging at below 7kW when the grid voltage is low. )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    I have a gas boiler which i always used to heat the water but on the BG 3 hour EV plan, I'm now using the immersion to also heat the water as it's at a cheaper cost per KW.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 LowPowerMode


    I went with a SwitchBot for turning on the immersion - went with it as the easiest option to fit and able to keep the sink/bath option also



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,283 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    I went with this about half a month ago and very happy with it. Charge car each night, put in dishwasher and washing machine. It feels like I'm winning every time I get to use that rate, 6.33c is excellent



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Borax2709


    for your use - https://kilowatt.ie/service/price-comparison is probably better - it allows you to upload your HDF and then also add solar + battery and use that additional production / load-shift to suggest a better tariff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,463 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    5.97c is even better, I was one of the lucky ones and got an extra 3% off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Yep at 2-5am all hell breaks loose in my house …I have a HP as well so I jam in a load of kWhs there as well

    Just checked with Energypal again with my new consumption profile and BG are the best still…but you have to be using the EV tariff as much as possible to get the best out of it.

    image.png image.png

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,463 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    BG hands down for me too when I set the start date to when I switched to BG. I bought a battery pack on the backfromthefuture.ie site that I fill with 6c electricity and I use it for charging phones, laptops, tablets etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    So after a year charging our Kona64 on Energia 2-6 EV rate, I plugged our ESB meter data in to Energypal…

    • We would have been €90 better off on Energia Day/Night rate (27c day/13.2c night)

    The main reason was being unable to stick rigidly to the 2-6 window.

    I broke down the raw data from Zappi for hours of usage, which showed that 15% of our car charging was outside the 2-6 rate, but this made up 45% of the cost (34c vs 7.5c). Total charging was approx 5200kWh (about 35,000km driving done only charged a few times on the road). Quite a few occasions my OH had consecutive long days on the road and needed to charge fully for the next day. Not to mention the one time my SIL plugged in her EQE and sucked 60kWh on day rate!

    We exported 4200kWh solar at 24c which softens the blow - will consider batteries if FIT drops drastically.

    Still only cost €610 for 35k km motoring, which would have been a good 2000l diesel in the Sportage so around €3400.

    I've signed up to the Day/Night tariff, at least we'll have no worries about managing the charging window. Worst case our charging costs go up to €700 if we do similar mileage, and our day rate for everything else is 6c less.

    Post edited by Jakey Rolling on

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭fafy


    i am unaware of an Energia 2 hour night tariff. they do have a 4 hour Smart Drive EV plan 2am to 6am. It is certainly more flexible than all of the competition, who have either 2 or 3 hour night tariffs.

    Some planning needed, or maybe habit changes, for longer EV journeys thr dollowing day, but one can set most chargers to only work between these hours. But being able to get circa 28kWh ev charging per session, in that low cost EV window is manageable/feasible for a lot of people, but maybe not suitable for everyone.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Takes nearly a week to catch back up from a long journey on our Niro (daily commute takes 20-25%) and the 4 hrs puts about 35% in a night.

    We are making it work, but are missing the 9hrs of night rate.

    Ended up using 50 odd kWh of day rate charging one day, car came back practically empty and we were leaving early the next morning, didn't even get the full cheap window.

    Although in that case I don't think even the 9 hrs of night rate would have even covered us. Still cheaper than public charging!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    Typo - Energia 2-6 tarriff.

    Left to my own devices I would manage charging 99% within that window :-)

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,463 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    Therein lies the problem. Family member here is fantasising about getting an EV, I'm not keen for that exact reason, they wouldn't adhere to the 3hr charging window (I'm with BG) and there'd be murders each time a bill is issued.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭Comer1


    There is still a need for Day/Night plans for people (like myself) with a second EV and a longish commute each day, plus a battery to charge, particularly in the winter. I can also imagine it being a bit stressful (and maybe obsessive) trying to watch that everything gets charged in the EV window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,463 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    Not really, that's what timers are for. My daily usage is small so it suits me perfectly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭Comer1


    What? You just said in the post above that there would be murder in your house because of non adherence to the 3 hour charging window and then you seem to contradict yourself saying there should be no issue as that's what timers are for???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,463 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    I meant for myself it's easy to manage, I'm not doing a boards handbags today, good luck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭Comer1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    "I've signed up to the Day/Night tariff, at least we'll have no worries about managing the charging window. Worst case our charging costs go up to €700 if we do similar mileage, and our day rate for everything else is 6c less."

    I thought once you'd switched to a Smart tariff you couldn't switch back to a Day/Night Tariff? Am I missing something?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Energia have a smart tariff that has the DN hrs with no peak



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,534 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'm still in the 9 hour night rate but I've got everything running from 2-6am since July. Means I can get a HDF that simulates my usage during the EV window without committing

    So far EnergyPal is still saying the Energia Smart Drive plan is cheapest but we'll see how winter goes. I expect there'll be a chunk of usage outside that time in the next few months so it'll be interesting to see how much it's estimating next spring

    The biggest disadvantage with this is you need a lot of patience, you'd want at least 6 months of data including winter. Ideally you want a full year so capture everything

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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