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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,152 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,461 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    To really hit a resource economy like Russia hard the sanctions need to have the backing of all the main players. It's not enough just to hit services like banking, investment, aviation... The problem is that China and to some extent India are such a major leakage on the resource side that the impacts are no where near what they could be.

    This situation won't be helped by Trump antagonising China.

    The world is not worried enough about the ghouls and goblins coming in in Washington for the next 4 years.

    Brace for impact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    We’ve also been hearing Russia will win any day now three years into their three days war

    The fact remains Russia will need to maintain current pace for over 4 years (quite likely more due to a big river and major cities in way) just to occupy the 4 oblasts they want Ukraine to just handover without a fight

    Make that two decades if they want everything east of Dnipro, and double again for rest of Ukraine

    Ukraine is big



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    That needs to be the angle pushed, big time. Trump has three options: 1) stop aid to Ukraine and stay out of the issue, 2) stop aid to Ukraine and back Putin's drive for a 'resolution', or 3) back Ukraine and look to cripple Russia. If Trump thinks that there is an easy win there by turning the screw on Putin to the extent that he might be seen as the POTUS that routed Russia as a power without any loss of blood, he may very well take that option with both hands. Essentially, explore every option to further cripple the Russian economy, ween the likes of India and China away from them with the kind of cloak and dagger boardroom negotiations he likes to pride himself on. I think that's the best we can hope for here.

    I can't see why Trump would rescue Putin here, unless he sees an angle to financially benefit from a recovering Russia. Or Putin has dirt on him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,767 ✭✭✭✭josip


    The last 2 years have substantially reduced the likelihood that Russia have meaningful 'dirt' on Trump. Trump has demonstrated that he's the Teflon Don when it comes to sleaze; what would destroy others' careers has no impact on him. Also, now that the election is over and he will be president in January, the leverage over him has diminished. Russia may still have dirt on him, but it will have to be more than the standard honey trap to be of any use.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    N Korea has been running on fumes for decades, there are different definitions of "collapse" but it's doubtful Russia will fully implode (although there's nothing wrong with expressing optimism for that)

    It could however become unfeasible to run such an expensive war. The cracks are showing and it impacts all Russians, which only increases the pressure, even in a dictatorship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Was just thinking the same. What would Putin have to release to worry Trump? He's already widely known as a sexual assaulter of women who cheated on his wife with a porn star. A few Russian hookers aren't going to bother him, he'd only claim it was fake news anyway.

    There is the Epstein stuff, which could conceivably be damaging if it was proven that he had sex with (raped) under age girls.

    I would hope that Trump decides he doesn't need Putin's approval anymore & goes all-in on supporting Ukraine. Then I guess we'll see what Putin has on him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    If Putin has no hold over him, it'll definitely be about money for Trump. Either the prospect of personal enrichment on the side or a huge boost to the US economy which would ingratiate him to the population. Which are the two things he seems to care most about - money and being worshipped. It's just hard to see how helping Russia out here could benefit the US to any meaningful extent. It seems to me (unqualified internet armchair expert in nothing) that the best bet is in siding with Ukraine, getting the contracts for rebuilding the country, trade deals on raw materials, a boost in trading with the EU all the while seeing Russia's strength on the world stage plummet.

    China is the unknown factor here. They would undoubtedly like to see Russia stay in the game if it looks as though Trump is going to take aim at them by way of trade war too. Which is why I think there needs to be some back channel discussions to ease tensions with China and agree to letting them have some sort of say in how Russia is exploited once Putin implodes.

    I really just REALLY want to see Putin having some kind of unfortunate window related accident. Soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    108 now*
    caveat: official rate


    who knows what the real rate is, place is like Cuba or Venezuela with fake rates that don’t match reality



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    If full-on physical, let alone economic, isolation and perpetual military bombardment for years didn't bring down Germany in WW2, I fail to see why anyone would think that the economic sanctions alone on Russia, which aren't complete courtesy of some more russia-friendly countries, would cause internal revolt.

    The only way to expect Russian defeat is militarily, with manpower and weapons. Other ways are possible, but cannot be relied upon and are outside of the control of anyone not inside Russia. The other problem is that while there are some limitations on some weapons systems caused by lack of funding (i.e. Ukraine could build more if it could pay for them), many of the others are limited by production. The idea that one can throw dollars of aid at a nation to help them win is limited. Dollar bills don't kill the enemy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Hitler's (and the Nazi party's) hold on the German population 90/ 95 years ago is different to Putin's hold over the Russians. German's experienced a dramatic increase in living standards and fully bought into the idea of Germany as an imperialist, conquering nation. Putin doesn't have anything like the same hold over Russians. It's purely about money in Moscow, and if things look like they'll tip over an edge I can see things starting to disintegrate. I don't think it's happening anytime soon, and I don't think it will come from any kind of popular uprising. But if things keep going south for the economy, and if he can't sustain his military successes, I think general rumblings of discontent on the streets could lead to those close to the Kremlin deciding to throw their lot in with someone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭rogber


    Ukraine needs better equipment to defend its skies. If a criminal state like Israel can get an iron dome with backing from its allies why can't an innocent state like Ukraine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    ”It's purely about money in Moscow”

    Yes yes it is, money that is rapidly devaluing

    IMG_5502.jpeg

    source: https://bsky.app/profile/juergennauditt.bsky.social/post/3lbug3nduhk2g



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,152 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    India and China are getting Russia oil at a huge discount. Some of the Russian companies supplying don't even make a profit anymore. Russia will still keep supplying even at a loss because the cost of completely stopping and restarting at some point is too high.

    I do agree that the sanctions aren't near where they could but as we see Russian economically probably won't sustain this war so they're doing work nonetheless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    The rouble lost 5% today

    In comparison the GBP dropped 4.7% vs DEM on Black Wednesday on 16th September 1991

    Yes that day when Soros became famous

    Red Tuesday 😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,152 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    All those missiles they're building with western parts are going to get very expensive.

    The Moscow times trying to spin this as a positive suggesting they can export a lot easier now 😂

    Long may this decline last. Next year's budget meeting will be fun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭junkyarddog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I heard on RTE's drivetime this evening an Irish reporter in Moscow giving their report of full shelves of food in the supermarkets and Irish visitors being waved through the airports while the authorities through spite make it very difficult for British citizens. And he absolutely delighted with himself on radio.

    Then you read this how the Kremlin has jailed a Russian news reporter for four years for cooperation with foreign news agencies. Notably Siber.Realii which is 100% russian but refuses to tow the Kremlin line in sending news items to the Kremlin for approval before reporting.

    Going on past performance by Putin's lackies she'll end up dead in prison.

    But fair play to the Irish reporter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,434 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    It's a gradual strangling of their economy I suppose. It could have been sped up and made much more painful if EU/UK/US etc. were braver, and willing to suffer some more pain themselves.

    As said, I believe ones still trading heavily with them, even the friends who would quite like to see Putin win his war, are driving hard bargains because Russia has little choice.

    It is too slow for Ukraine and it has not dented Russia's war industry enough. They can still get supplies of Western stuff they really need for it, and have no Chinese replacement for - it just costs them an awful lot more.

    On Trump, I think it is better that European leaders have been pretty quiet about it vs screaming their heads off panicking in public (if that is what you are getting at there?). I mean what can one say at this point? All they can do is get ready for it as best they can. I would be very surprised if they are not extremely worried. The worst case scenarios are awful (for us in Europe, and other US allies).

    I don't think China has as much to fear from Trump as one might expect ironically. I think the permanent damage he will do to the US and to its allies (which will benefit China in the long run) outweights harm he will inflict on them during his term!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Ah yes the industrial exporting powerhouse that is .. Russia would “benefit” from lower rouble 😂

    A country that is already reduced to bartering be most of its exports (oil) is traded in dollars

    Looking forward to Europe being flooded with … trying really hard to think anything Russians make … Chinese made Ladas

    There was an interesting article (trying find link) outlining how the Russian economy has eaten itself, so many are employed now in military industries or directly involved in war that if it stops they all become unemployed leading to a crash as domestic consumer manufacturers got replaced wholesale by the Chinese



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    And there's lads on here thinking Poland should be fearing a possible Russian invasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Agreed. I used to laugh like everybody else at his old ''I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" quote and think that although we know his followers are so fanatical that they'd let him away with just about anything, that would be a bit too far. Now, I'm not so sure. The MAGA zealots will accept anything now. I'm not sure that even ,say, assaulting an underage girl or even boy would shift them. They keep calling for these Epstein flight logs, but if it turned out that he was a regular on Epstein's island they'd just shrug.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,639 ✭✭✭Field east


    given how some of the businesses/ services / Irish individuals are reacting to The Conor McGregor court case outcome I expect that anything to do with Donal Trump in Ireland will be subjected to the same treatment - am thinking his Doonbeg facility in Clare by way of example. Ml Jackson got the same treatment, in principal. Was RTE involved in the Treatment of MJ in that we never hear any of his music being played.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,300 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That's because too many assumed such a level of sanctioning would have some magical instantaneous effect. They don't and aren't designed to. They're designed to stifle growth and(depending on levels of course) turn the economy inwards and slowly cook the sanctioned economy to near subsistence levels. QV Cuba. It didn't collapse, but it was massively stagnated even with help from the Soviet Union when it was a thing. North Korea another example. Iran weathered them better, but compare and contrast Iran with other oil rich nations in the Middle East.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    I think this was it

    "A protracted stalemate might be the only solution for Russia to avoid total economic collapse," Foucart wrote. "The Russian regime has no incentive to end the war and deal with that kind of economic reality. So it cannot afford to win the war, nor can it afford to lose it. Its economy is now entirely geared towards continuing a long and ever deadlier conflict."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    This is a good point. If the war just ends with the current front line being the new de-facto border for 10-20 years, it would be very painful for Ukraine, but also a disaster for Putin. Now Russians would have to spend at least some money restoring the bombed out, heavily mined lands, where most of the younger people (of the working age) are gone, but there are lots of pensioners that need to be supported.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,050 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    The French continue to demonstrate NATO inability to fight for Ukraine. The French FM recently refused (again) to rule out sending French troops to Ukraine, and French media followed up by claiming the UK and France were in talks to organise a joint intervention. David Lammy has helpfully clarified that the UK has no plans to send troops to Ukraine, and isn't talking to France about it.

    But its never been credible for France, even with the UK, to intervene in Ukraine. For all the talk of European military rearmament, the UK has cut another 500m from its military budget last week by scrapping ships, helicopters and drones that it doesn't have the funds or manpower to keep operational. Replacements are planned, but not for many years. And UK military procurement is infamous for how bad it is.

    France isn't much better. About a month ago it announced it had to cut its planned military aid to Ukraine by roughly a billion euro. Its further having to cut other programs to somehow control its budget deficits. This on top of earlier military cuts, which back in 2017 caused the head of the French military to resign in protest.

    These are the two strongest militaries in western Europe and they're going through cutbacks and cost savings as part of wider national efforts by both the UK and the French to deal with their economic and budget woes. Germany is as bad if not worse. There might be talk of rearming, and military expansion, but schools, hospitals, housing, transport, pensions and other welfare will all be defended long before voters back a massive transfer of tax payer money to private arms manufacturers for a pointless war, which Gallup polling now shows a majority of Ukrainians want ended by negotiations.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Your posts are utterly confusing.

    You seem to take glory in the advances of Russian troops or any kind of advancement at all. And then follow up with "Not good news at all". Haven't really seen you put much support in for Ukraine at all…ever.



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