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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But are areas taken by the Russians not being largely ethnically cleansed in the process? I'm guessing much of it 'voluntary' as Ukranian civilians flee ahead of the advancing troops…If the frontlines were frozen where they are now, I'd imagine there'd be few Ukranian 'patriots' left in the 'occupied territories' to pursue a resistance struggle…



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They really don't need to respond if it was an ICBM. Russia warned them of the launch as per existing treaties.

    This is not the first "nuclear capable" weapon that Russia has used to attack Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭flutered




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭engineerws


    Danny Davis had Postol on his show today

    For anyone unfamiliar he's an MIT professor.

    Transcript from Mark Wauck

    I've already given some talks to audiences in Germany about this problem of these missiles that the United States wants to deploy with Germany in 2026. This is going to drive the warning times down to minutes or shorter. This is going to create a nuclear warning situation that will drive the risks of an accidental nuclear warning and a false alert, or an accidental massive launch, through the roof. This is really going to increase the danger of an accidental nuclear war--I cannot emphasize this enough. We have people in decision-making positions who have no idea what they're doing. If they are engaging in this kind of behavior and they have no idea what they're actually doing--and it's becoming clearer and clearer they do not know what they're doing--Mr Putin just sent them a message.

    Sounds like Russia will likely attack Germany if they move the new missiles there in 2026. Feels like a new cold war.

    A shame the peace treaty wasn't signed in April 2022. People have cheered Ukraine to its doom. Yes, Russia has been damaged but Ukraine has been ruined. Ukraine is in a much worse position and the potential for nuclear war seems to have increased massively.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    True but the footage of this new weapon is fairly frightening tbh.

    Also the fact that they warned them and yet Ukraine still couldn't stop it is a massive cause for concern.

    https://twitter.com/igorlachenkov/status/1859561766646071673



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well they didn't warn Ukraine, just the US - and with about 30 min lead time. I am skeptical the info would get to Ukraine in time.

    It's worrying and definitely an escalation (for those so worried about such things, though they seem quiet on this) but I still think it is essentially just more bombast from Russia. Strategically it was a massive waste of money and equipment. And seemingly they launched a second one that failed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "A shame the peace treaty wasn't signed in April 2022."

    What peace treaty are you talking about?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,386 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    ...

    People have cheered Ukraine to its doom alright. Your posts are textbook examples of that repeating Russia's excuses and lies here to justify their illegal war of plunder and aggression.

    Now you post cheering on a Russian attack on Germany under the pretence of concern. Zero condemnation of Russian aggression.

    Shame Russia in violation of multiple previous peace agreements and treaties launched an illegal invasion of Ukraine and conducted the war via war crimes a and atrocities like Bucha. Something you never hold them to account for by condemning without reservation - always engaging in false both sides equivocations or whataboutery.

    In light of that your claims of concern for Ukraine and peace agreements have no credibility.

    There was no peace deal in 2022. Just Russia making demands of Ukraine that would have left it unable to resist Russian domination - deprived of Western assistance and obliged to have a miniscule army. More bad faith Russian diplomacy not intended to deliver peace.

    Surrendering to such demands would doom Ukraine faster than fighting off Russian invasion.

    It is Russia who increases the chances of nuclear war by violating the agreement by which Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons. A signal to other countries never to give up theirs or acquire them. A genuine position of concern for nuclear escalation and proliferation would recognise that.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Repeating lies doesn't make them come true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Sigh, I think I might be done here guys. This thread has turned into an absolute gutter since the bans were removed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    30 mins is a lifetime in such circumstances. If the US couldn't get the info to Ukrainian intelligence within that timeframe then that's an even bigger worry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    You aren't worried. You think we don't see you thanking the Vatnik scutter or something? Anyway i'll take my own advice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    Please stay and discuss stuff a little longer. What is Vatnik scutter?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Think I'm finished here aswell. There still seem to be few genuine posters but the volume of pro putin kremlin sponsored anti Ukrainian skutter has just gone too far me anyway.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The system is to make sure that the US doesn't think it is a nuclear ICBM launch from Russia and retaliate. I have no idea how the whole thing works, but it is possible they aren't even in a position to share the information.

    I think you underestimate the levels of bureaucracy in these matters anyway. There will be a very specific chain the information goes through while will be separate from that which decides to share it or not with Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,386 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There was no real / tangible peace deal that could be signed.

    There were discussions in Istanbul but both sides were miles apart on all the key issues... Donbas, Crimea, future security guarantees, size of Ukraines military.

    And Russia engaging in bad faith diplomacy as usual... demanding it could veto assistance to Ukraine. So Russia demanded a tiny Ukrainian military and could then attack it and veto other signatories coming to its help!

    Summarised here:

    https://www.intellinews.com/fresh-evidence-suggests-that-the-april-2022-istanbul-peace-deal-to-end-the-war-in-ukraine-was-stillborn-321468/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The quote you mention attributed to Putin,regardless of it was him or somebody else said it, is 100% true and to the point.Because thats exactly what they did, and will do again if the get the chance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,536 ✭✭✭Widdensushi




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Again apologies for another positive Ukrainian post. I'll let you get straight back to your Ukraine needs to give Russia peace narrative.

    Ukraine are struggling to hold back the hoard but with the Russian economic dam on the verge of bursting this feels like the most crucial stage of this war. Ease off on military aid and Russia might take the territory they seek. Up the aid, help Ukraine slow them down even and who knows the dominos could fall into place. You'll never know if you don't try.

    Post edited by RoyalCelt on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And brought then out of Afghanistan as well. Aside from the hammering their military was taking after the US supplied weapons kicked in, the costs were driving Russia to bankruptcy, same thing is happening again. It's said that those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are destined to repeat them !! The Russian experience would seem to prove it!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    It has been the best thread on boards, it is has been a relative oasis compared to some of the other chaotic threads in current affairs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    the costs were driving Russia to bankruptcy, same thing is happening again. 

    On what sort of timescale though? Given the rate at which Russian advance has picked up lately, it's conceivable Putin have seized as much as he wants in a matter of months…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There seems to be a belief amongst large parts of the public that a nuclear war is not possible (or they just never think about it). The Cold War and the readiness of governments and their populations has been long forgotten.

    It's probably time to dust the old nuclear war videos off and education material to remind the public that the threat today is as real as it was in the Cold War. Whether it's Russia, China, India, Pakistan, even North Korea…the threat has always been there. Despite this since the end of the Cold War it seems to have melted into the background of the conciousness of the public.

    We shouldn't be living in fear but equally we shouldn't be ignorant of the risks either. We need decision makers to be very careful about decisions they make.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,119 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Let’s start with the one person who is threatening the world with Nukes because his army is failing in illegally occupying a country.

    What other country apart from Russia is threatening Nukes at this moment in time???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,073 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    image.png

    While you're waiting for the Russian economy to collapse, another key anchor point of Ukraine's defence is in serious jeopardy.

    Velyka Novosilka is the last major hub in southern part of the Donetsk region that Ukraine still controls and it's in danger of envelopment by the Russians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭deadduck


    I would implore yourself and anyone thinking of doing the same, please reconsider. If you throw in the towel on refuting the Russian ‘Peacemonger’ bullshit that gets posted here, the Kremlin and all their useful idiots on here win. This is exactly their MO, repeat the same bullshit over and over, cherry pick quotes that suit them, memory hole the stuff that doesn’t, and eventually the rest of us get so worn down, we give up the debate.

    **** them, and their bullshit, and to all the regular posters on here that are usually quick to call them out on it, hats off to you, you’re doing us all a service 👍



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,119 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Zico


    A handful of nukes on two areas would wipe out Russia as a functioning state. I'd be nervous if I was a Russian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    I keep reading this about how Russia wouldn't be able to hold Ukraine and citing Afghan as an example of why this would be true. It's not comparable.

    Both Afghan wars, Iraq, Vietnam were an external power helping a local government, legitimate or not, keep power.

    Russia won't give a woot. If the locals are giving trouble they will wipe them out, or at best send them to Siberia. That's if they haven't all fled to Europe. This idea that there will be a local resistance is fanciful nonsense. It will be Syria, not Saigon.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Zico




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