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Why do companies want to return to the office?

  • 19-11-2024 10:08PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭


    I go to the office 1 day a week and I absolutely dread it.

    I work in a global environment managing a team with employees mainly around Europe and 1 in APAC. Communication is all done through slack and zoom etc.

    That doesn’t change when I go to the office. I still spend half the day on zoom. But I have to commute 3 hours and pay tolls/parking etc. And I often end up having to cancel meetings as there are no free meeting rooms.

    It’s madness. A lot of my family/friends circle all have similar situations.

    It’s baffling that companies can’t accept what will eventually be inevitable.



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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Distant non-office online employment opportunities had a major pilot test during Covid. In many cases it worked, in others it didn’t. It appears that rapid advance of technology will allow for more distant employment opportunities. Both tech employees and their managers may have to train up and scale up before distant employment will be more effective, efficient, profitable, and acceptable. There appears to be resistance to change, which often occurs, too.

    Perhaps similar to your experience, I work on research team projects where much of what we do involves a collaboration online, and face to face meetings have little utility towards project completion. Our teamwork works well virtually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭CuriousCucumber


    Because companies have deemed it more productive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,460 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Because most qualified workers didn't spend years in education just to sit at home getting paid to do a minimal amount of work. On the clock used to mean something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Remember companies were lauding the benefits of WFH during COVID?

    I remember back in 2022 our crowd saying they had zero drop in productivity.

    I asked how they measure productivity.

    Silence.

    I knew it was bound to happen. Came back to the office after COVID and all the new hires were useless as they had zero mentoring and oversight. Most people aren't self motivated enough to effectively work from home. Others are out doing the shopping and minding children when they should be working. Some just sink as they're not getting adequate support from their colleagues who are absent from the office.

    Problems get worse when pro WFH managers don't fix these issues in case they too will be called back into the office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    100% in the same situation as OP. I only go into the office purely out of fear that that they compel me back in. The days I go in are by far the most unproductive in the week and that doesn't include the 2 hours wasted sitting in traffic.

    Am expecting lots of sneering office fundamentalists in this thread. There are a few of these in my office. Naturally enough, the same ones who tip off for an hour for coffee at 10 in the morning and again at 3 in the afternoon or who scoot up to your desk "looking for the chats"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Because they can is the simple answer.

    If someone doesn't know if their staff are working. Then they don't measure it. Which means they also don't measure it in the office either.

    The only solution is to move to a job that does allow remote working.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,809 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    There's moves in the organisation where I work to introduce a 40% attendance rule. As I'm the only member on the team in Ireland, I'll probably escape it. I've been under no obligation to go into the office to do my job for over ten years, so it'd be a bit perverse to force it now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭GHendrix


    At the end of the day, if a company can’t train or motivate people to work remotely and don’t have KPIs in place to measure performance, then that’s their problem.

    They’ll have to start to adapt or they could find themselves left even further behind



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,898 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    With a lot of tech, multinationals etc, I would say a vested interest, they have spent huge money on office space.

    Unfortunately where they go others tend to follow to a degree, nonsensical really and not based on productivity. My one day a week by far least productive, too many distractions, time wasted travelling etc. I have a good team who I know are doing the work when at home.

    We do one day a week in office but talk of increase to two from on high, it would be a silly move as offering one day a week has been massive help when it comes to recruitment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭GHendrix


    Why would they do a minimal amount of work at home?

    Did they spend years in education but still need a supervisor to watch them and make sure they’re working? Maybe they should try to be more independent



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Every job is different, some can be done at home and some just can't be done as well. We have a few home workers but it depends on the role.

    Some of the accounts team are allowed work from home but the service team certainly aren't, that requires too much communication and teamwork that they just won't do over zoom or whatever.

    I also believe that most people in my company that work from home are then stuck at the level they were at when they started to WFH, they don't progress or bring new ideas or help colleagues to grow, they just do their job and that's it. They're the forgotten staff. One woman was the office / accounts manager who now won't come in so her influence on the company is much less and she wonders why she's not getting pay raises etc....she is not as productive anymore and just kind of checks in and checks out.

    But as I said everyone and every job is different. Just don't expect to be promoted ahead of your colleagues that show up to the office and add to the company culture etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭GHendrix


    I can see why working in an office might be beneficial if your company or department are all based in 1 location and you can actually collaborate.

    But nowadays that is rarely the case. At least most people in my extended circle all work in global environments.

    Working from an office or from home is ultimately the same thing in that environment. You still spend the day on zoom, slack etc.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,809 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if i was able to go into the office to meet colleagues, i'd want to do that a couple of days a week. there are some benefits to having a boss who is a 90 minute plane flight away, but sometimes i'd like to be able to go sit on his desk to get his attention. and i'm not saying that's a failing on his part, it's just a fact of physical separation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭whippet


    it's not a one size fits all and I have been at both ends of the spectrum. I worked 3-4 days at home for a number of years before Covid. I was with the company for about 20 years and it was a relatively small company with a steady headcount. It worked great for me and for the organisation - however this was in the early days when Skype for business and Cisco Webex were the norm and used occasionally.

    Around came covid and suddenly everyone was invited and almost expected to be in every Teams meeting going which hasn't let off - so in the last couple of years you now see people on constant Teams messages in an office.

    However - I changed job just as Covid was ending and I moved to a larger company. There was a hybrid approach and most people did 2-3 days in the office. I ended up settling on 4 days in the office and what I gained from being in the office with my new colleagues has stood in my favour from a lot of different angles.

    Being in the office gave me a much quicker path to progress in the organisation by virtue of being around all departments of the business. Someone who started the same week as me in the same role and who works from home 4 days a week hasn't progressed and it is purely that they don't have those adhoc interactions with their peers from other departments and senior leadership.

    I know that not everyone is ambitious or wants to interact with other colleagues but you can't take away from the fact that like everything in life most things are more nuanced than pure transactional and personal relationships matter.

    It also doesn't help when we have a generation of people entering the workforce now who almost flat refuse to make a phone call or take one. Hiding behind email, messages and group online meetings. Maybe I'm an old fart stuck in my ways but a single phone call of 5mins can replace an email thread with 20 people cc'ed 90% of the time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,894 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    The "minimum amount of work" is called doing your job. The hours spent commuting are unpaid labour

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 349 ✭✭sugarman20


    Because ye are sitting around in your pjs doing sfa.

    SUBSCRIBE HERE TO KEEP BOARDS ONLINE

    Linky



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Real estate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,894 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I've yet to see any company release data showing their productivity dropped as a result of working from home. I would wager the vast majority maintained productivity or increased it

    The answers are much simpler, and there's a few of them IMO

    First is the middle managers of most companies are under threat because it's a lot easier to measure productivity in remote employees than depending on nebulous metrics like "collaboration". They also can't really exert their will on remote employees so are forcing them back to the office

    Second, a lot of CEOs are basically workaholics who revel in the "all hands on deck" mentality and feel the company is missing something by staff working remotely

    Third, and the simplest reason, it's a redundancy action without the redundancy. Easiest way to improve the bottom line is to fire a bunch of staff but companies don't want the bad press. So they force staff back to the office, a bunch leave (often the expensive senior staff) and many of the ones who stay are junior staff dependent on gaining experience or migrant workers who will lose their work visa if they quit

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    A lot of companies are flexible enough these days.

    But Having to come to an office to spend the day on zoom or teams meetings is nuts. I mainly work from home since covid hit, and do the odd day in the office when needed, I work in IT so most of my work can be done from anywhere. We have a morning meeting every day at 9am to talk about the various tasks we are working on, so no-one can take the piss.

    If I do have to go into the office it's usually for a face to face meeting, or off my own bat I make the decision to go in if I need to do any work on physical infrastructure etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,533 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    So they can make sure you put the new cover sheet on the TPS reports

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,147 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I think this all falls back to pensions funds and other investment funds owning the buildings.

    My reading is that the value of a commercial building say a block of offices is a multiplier of their rental incomes.
    So say a block with 10 companies renting is worth €1bn. If these companies need less space as 70% of the staff are remote then the potential rental income is damaged and so the building may only be worth €500 million. So on paper the pension fund who invested in the building looses massively, multiply that across many investments and you could see pension funds going bankrupt. That has massive knock on implications.

    There is also the micro managers who can’t come with remote workers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,540 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    I'm thinking it's this more and more lately.

    I don't buy the middle manager theory as the ones making the decisions are usually at the top so if they can cut middle managers, they will regardless. I also think that any company that wants to impact their bottom line, having an office is a huge expense so if they can get rid of it or downsize it, it will eventually save them money and again, that's good for the bottom line. Remember all the big companies are about numbers so that's what actually matters.

    BUT the knock on effects of the commercial real estate collapse that is happening and will continue to happen will likely have a massive global effect as @_Brian pointed out and I think board members are likely pushing this agenda without it being passed down to the minions why. I wouldn't be surprised at all if at C suite level, this is common knowledge



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,540 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    commercial real estate is in trouble, so…….



  • Posts: 553 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Where I'm working now in IT I don't really have set hours. I do plenty of work out of hours and sometimes weekend work for upgrades, maybe once a month. A lot of days if I don't have meetings I just have my phone on me with teams and keep an eye on email. One day every 2 weeks is mandatory where I'm working in office which I'm fine with as only a 20 minute spin. Good to catch up with collegues as well.

    I'm paid for my expertise and thats reflected in my salary, not having to stare at a blank screen if i'm a bit quiet. I could be up the walls for a month at a time constant meetings and upgrades while next month could be quieter and just do the architecture designs when i feel like.

    My company encourages work life balance.

    I acutally find teams calls more productive than in office meetings as a lot of people freeze up in person.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    When I work from home I find I was spending all day on teams calls, somebody needs help with something we've to do a screen share and I miss doing a lot of my own work. In the office I can just pop over to the other desk and get it sorted in half the time

    Personal opinion obviously



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭Tomw86


    The third point in the above is very relevant for my current situation. That and the fact Senior Management love the office and quite often just spend the day talking loudly to each other or organizing meetings, over Teams, in the Board room, with colleagues in other locations - but it is more a show to say 'look we're all together here'.

    I currently do 2 days and that is fine but I hate those days in the office and get much more done WFH but that is due to the structure of the role I do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    I don't think any company would publicly say they are less efficient, for fears of blowback from shareholders

    There are a good few studies on third level education which are all negative about the impact of COVID (and by extension WFH). So while someone with years of experience may function well in a home office, the next generation who aren't getting the benefits of in-person mentorship and support will be worse off.

    Our crowd mandates that interns and grads must be in the office Mon-Thurs and senior staff are required to mentor and train them, so by extension we are obliged to be in a few days too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,894 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well my experience is that the younger generation has absolutely no interest in the office and wants remote work as much as possible

    I do agree that training and supporting graduates has become difficult with remote work, but I'd turn that around on employers. It takes a lot of effort to get new employees up to speed and frankly it feels like that effort actually trailed off during COVID and remote work.

    Managers and mentors need to be proactive and reach out to new employees to ensure they aren't sitting alone. They also need to foster an air of being approachable so new hires are happy to ask questions

    Frankly this seems to be lacking in a lot of companies now regardless of where their employees are working

    It can be beneficial for new hires to go into the office if it's turned into a social and learning experience. It has to be organised and a lot of companies seem uninterested in that

    If I'm being totally honest, most companies seem totally uninterested in training staff and are expecting new hires at all levels to walk in with 100% of the skills they need from day 1

    This is my experience too, the people who call loudest for a return to office seem to be the ones who are loudest and most disruptive in the office

    Personally, I'm quite happy to head in when there's a reason to go, like meeting the team or training or a planning session.

    I really don't see the point in commuting for 2 hours to do some Zoom meetings that I could have done at home

    I certainly don't find I do any more work in the office, just instead of slacking off to do the laundry I'll be slacking off to chat to people

    There seems to be this idea among managers that if you force a bunch of people into a room they'll "collaborate". Mostly they'll probably collaborate to escape, either physically or by talking about anything except work

    True collaboration happens when you get a bunch of people with a shared objective to help each other and work together. You don't need to be in the same generic office space for that to happen

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Reading between the lines...

    You're not working you're mentoring and it's taking at least half your day even even when you're in the office.

    Being dragged away from your desk like that is unplanned (unscheduled) work. The problem with that in an office is that it's not quantified.

    Mentoring people is often better in person.

    Not everyone likes doing things remotely.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Homesick Alien


    Commuting is not, and never has been, "unpaid labour". God almighty.



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