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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    This is probably most important post made here today, 1000 days in

    The whole of Russian economy has turned into what is now called “deathonomics” where a middle aged Russian male of 35-40 can potentially earn more in one year participating in special military operation than remainder of his (pitifully low Russian male life expectancy to begin with) life

    But here are the caveats:

    1. One obviously has to survive long enough, with life expectancy for fresh meat reportedly being a couple of weeks (which includes a weeks training)
    2. If one dies the family may not get benefits if commander doesn’t report the meatbag as KIA, no real incentive for a commander to do so, tho rumours of some commanders extracting a “tax” insurance premium from alive soldiers with promise that yes they be reported as dead
    3. If one is injured well beside potentially being a burden for family for rest of life only few days ago I posted Russians reporting serious drops in injury payments as Putin ordered belt tightening
    4. They get paid in roubles, a currency whose value is dropping and inflation is through roof (both the fake figures reported to Putin and real inflation people experience)

    For anyone familiar with history take a look at what happens to Russia and the Tzar during WW1 the parallels are too many to list

    Re #4 during US elections we had Putinbots gloating that a shopping basket in Russia be 30% cheaper than US which is incredible considering Russians earn 7x less than Americans on average (and probably more as Russian inequality makes the US look comparatively egalitarian, which in itself is an achievement)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Pay attention to who thanked the post. It's one thing to support Putin, it's another to make an extended effort to pretend otherwise. What a weird bunch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Yad expect him to push back against recent events with words on nuclear



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Good point!

    Bryansk is not Kursk, last few pages we had posts along lines of “Ukraine is only limited to using these in Kursk and occupied territories”

    It’s an oblast that’s half the size of the republic between Kursk and bordering Belarus and Ukraine

    To quote Zelensky, the missiles will speak for themselves



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh it's a Tuesday, looks like time again for more nuclear sabre rattling from the Kremlin… As for Markov, he should be on the stage. Apparently atomic war before Christmas.

    Now Times Radio is decidedly, transparently and often laughably, even farcically pro Ukraine, but this Markov eejit takes the biscuit.

    Oh and for shíts and giggles have an oul read of America's nuclear doctrine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_for_Joint_Nuclear_Operations

    While it's been tweaked here and there since it's arguably more gung ho for first strike purposes than Russia's. And yet the Americans don't wheel out their nuclear threats on the regular like Putin.

    That's before we get to Russia's nuclear arsenal itself. Nukes are extremely twitchy when it comes to maintenance. They are nothing like conventional explosives. You can't just store them in sheds. They need constant and expensive upkeep and replacement of things like tritium(in fission bombs). Over the last decade the US has spent roughly the same amount on maintaining their nuclear arms as Russia has on its entire military. Now we've already seen the Russian military machine struggling because of dodgy types skimming the pot to line their pockets, so how much skimming has been going on with the most expensive part of their war machine, one that is more a threat than much use if you have to use them… Never mind Russia's public failure of nuclear missile tests. Iiirc of five firings one got off the ground.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Moderators Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭Azza


    What's depressing is your lack of understanding of history.

    So let me get this straight the lesson you concluded we need to learn from World War 2 is that appeasing an authoritarian leader prevents world wars?

    Aside from which there was no happiness among the belligerent nations when World War 2 broke out. The populous of each of those nation could all recall the horrors of the First World War.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,540 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    There won't be a Ukraine if they stop fighting. There may not continue to be a Russian Federation if they keep pursuing their disastrous attempt at colonial conquest. The only way peace can be achieved is by Russia withdrawing back inside their own internationally recognised borders or Ukraine killing or capturing every last one of Putin's soldiers in their country.

    Tell you what, why don't you head up to the Spire on O' Connell Street, strip naked and bend over beneath a sign saying "Please Rape and Beat Me" then report back on how much you enjoy Russia's idea of peace?

    Here's some directions for you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    As a war protester in the past I knew quite a few of these people. They perceive countries like they perceive people. Reductionists who break history down into simple narratives, discard all the context and nuance, then cherry-pick narratives that appeal to them and fit that to particular countries. Whether it's Alex Jones the conspiracy theorist or our ex MEP Mick Wallace, they always cast a particular country as the villain. Not an administration, the entire country. They have a prepared list of "bad things" that country did over the last decades. And whenever a situation occurs in the world, they use mental gymnastics to find ways to blame that country.

    Simple side-taking. Black and white thinking. Not that they all directly support Putin, but he's the enemy of their enemy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭wassie


    I wonder if Russian Central Bank Governor Elvira Nabiullina's office has windows?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yet you go and thank a pro Putin speech by a known conspiracy theorist on here.

    Yeah.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Checkpoint on discrediting Russian propaganda - which has already been discredited multiple times on the thread.

    Russia already had a border with NATO.

    Russia now has expanded borders with NATO since Finland joined. Finland was neutral all through the Cold War. It joined NATO because it was clear Russia would not respect its neutrality and independence.

    If Russia was concerned about a threat from NATO it wouldn't have stripped its forces from where they were stationed opposite NATO countries. Proof positive it is a Russian lie.

    In the NATO-Russia Founding Act, Russia acknowledged the right of former USSR republics and Warsaw Pact contains to choose their own security arrangements. They could join NATO, they could be neutral, they could align with Russia.
    In return NATO made a declaration with regard to no stationing of nuclear weapons in those countries, or permanent bases. NATO honoured those declarations. Russia for its part invaded Ukraine, and stationed nuclear weapons in Belarus.
    There is only one country escalating tensions, it is Russia. Russia has acted to de-stabilise Georgia and Moldova.
    It is Russia threats and escalations that drives Poland, Baltics, Ukraine etc to seek protection under NATO from Russian domination.

    A Ukraine in NATO was not a military threat to Russia. But a Ukraine in NATO is one outside of the reach of Putin and his army of war criminals to plunder and rape and dominate.

    These are all the reasons why the nonsense comparison with Cuba is just Russia propaganda.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    It's nuts. In this alternative WW2 history, leadership and people of the allied democracies were all whipped up in jingosim and militarism, marching themsleves off to war in Europe, while Hitler and the Germans were men of peace, whose hands were sadly forced by their neighbours not giving them everything they wanted!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yes but US bad, therefore NATO bad, therefore Putin is a victim.

    Whether its Clare Daly, George Galloway, Alex Jones or even Noam Chomsky - they all share the same common denominator. The only difference is the extent of the pseudo-intellectual effort they make to validate it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yup, dictators without opposition, sweeping powers and massive armies have no agency apparently

    There's always some "reasonable" excuse why they were arm-twisted to invade their helpless neighbour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,003 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    I asked AI to summarise previous page, “friends of Russia”, whom are known for not being able to hold consistent non hypocritical or contradictory stances on complex current affairs topics on the same page claim:

    • Russia doesn’t want or need Ukraine
    • Russia is prepared to start a nuclear war over a country it doesn’t need or want


    Yep, makes total sense

    Pro tip for “Putin ballsack adjacent morally elastic underwear in human form”; get your act together and put out consistent messages if you don’t want your propaganda to fall apart immediately under the most rudimentary of examination.



  • Moderators Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭Azza


    I don't see the parallels to WWI either. Maybe I missed it, but did Ukraine assassinate a member of the Russian royal family, engage in imperialism in direct competition with Russia, have a naval arms race with Russia, or was either Russia or Ukraine part of rival military alliances before Russia invaded?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,271 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Putin's statement on use of missiles hitting Russia from a couple of months ago and has been repeated multiple times since.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,172 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    It'll be interesting to see how things work out for Russia in this regard over the course of the winter. Certain posters have been "concerned" about Russian taking/re-taking various Ukrainian towns and villages these last few months, but any troops stationed here have to be supplied, resupplied and rotated, and off-road routes are going to become impractical soon enough.

    Ukrainian has been getting ever more skillful at using drones and home-grown missiles (never mind the foreign stuff) to destroy stockpiles, barracks, and vehicles on the move well behind the front line. With supply vehicles limited to using known routes, it's going to be a real challenge for Russian troops on the front line to remain effective.

    If Ukraine spends this winter targetting these, day after day, week after week, leaving the Russian occupiers cold, tired and hungry, then a few well-planned, very aggressive counter-offensives in the spring could reverse all of Russia's 2024 gains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,003 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Have you heard the one about the boy who cried wolf?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    He got hit in back of the head by a boomerang he threw? 🤓



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,741 ✭✭✭✭josip


    And it'll be repeated multiple times again. It's a hollow threat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    You do realise the appeasement approach was used by Neville Chamberlain? Keep the Germans happy, that did not work...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I thought putin claimed they were at war with NATO years ago? putin doesn't seem to be consistent af all here.

    At least old tweets are now being marked as such by putins lackies rather than pretending they are new events.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    It does but now I understand why she is not worried, it’s not a particularly tall building

    Untitled Image


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,271 ✭✭✭brickster69


    What main point did you take from it ? Sounds to me like he classes missiles launched with Nato assistance because Ukrainians can't use them as a direct attack on them by that party. Do you think that is correct or not ?

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    I don't see any conspiracy stuff, just people discussing issues which is what the site should be about hence the like.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Tbh though it would be a last blast of the trumpet for them as any "friends" left like China would lose the plot with Putin over it, I wouldn't be totally shocked(beyond the obvious horror) if Moscow fired one of their still working fission weapons at a Ukrainian "military" target to show "they really mean business".

    Another option and one that would be less likely to piss China et al off and because it could be controlled would be more likely to actually work would be to detonate a nuke on some remote Russian arctic island in the first in atmosphere nuclear test since(iirc) the 1960's. The Soviet Tsar Bomb was a similar example. Insanely huge, if utterly impractical, but had the desired geopolitical effect.

    And if they were to do so it would seem logical to do so before Trump gets in.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    it was fine when the missiles were all going in Ukraine’s direction .
    This won’t help Putin’s popularity in Russia



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Only saw this in another quote since Dohnny has the honour of being on my ignore list of one. Quite an achievement considering the sh1t I have to put up with.

    Anyway.

    I take it that 'known conspiracy theorist' would be me? Or am I flattering myself? If true you might come off my ignore list, your entertainment value has gone up considerably.



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