Israel are going to start WWIII

They can, but such an attack this time may make it inevitable that America is dragged into a war with Iran, if the Iranian regime feels they are backed into a corner and have no choice but to respond.

So I don't think Trump will risk it.

He will if he thinks there will no repercussions to America, but if it risk a wider war in the Middle East which drags in America ,when he has made it clear he wants the wars in the Middle East and Ukraine to end, then I don't think he will allow it. He has people in his cabinet who are opposed to the likes of Rubio and Huckabees. There will be a lot of friction in his cabinet.

There was no warning. Reported by the BBC. And there are plenty of instances of the IDF issuing no warnings at all - as you know.

But sure - keep on justifying a terrorist genocidal State intent on butchery and murder whenever it suits them.

I'd say the actual impact was minimal.

Most Americans don't give a toss about the Middle East.

Palestine Islamic State fights alongside Hamas in Gaza.

I was just making the point that there seems to be a general consesus, here, and online, that soft support can be expressed for Hamas under the guise that they're freedom fighters, revolutionaries, the resistance etc, whereas it's a bit more difficult to head down the pub and try and convince the buds that PIS are just a cracking bunch of lads, and sure what choice did they have anyway, we'd all be at it if we were there.

Neither group are really Palestinian nationalists anyway really, despite what you see posted here,

Sinwar certainly wasn't. It simply about the destruction of Israel.

The Iranians don't really possess much capability to respond though, do they?

I really don't see any outright war between Iran and either Israel or the US, although Trump is strong on the nuclear issue there.

Trump is certainly an unpredictable variable in the equation.

For my money, he likes this image of himself as a 'Deal Maker'. There's no bigger deal than peace in the middle east.

He's absolutely pragmatic eneough to go either way in any settlement talks, i mean, either shore up Bibi, or give him a kick in the nuts.

I've just seen this.

I don't know whether you didn't know, or just thought nobody else would know, that the Palestine Symphony Orchestra was founded in 1936 under the leadership of Bronislaw Huberman. A Jew.

Huberman, a violinist, focused on developing a critically acclaimed symphony orchestra. Conditions in Europe had become such that the orchestra could serve as a haven for persecuted Jewish musicians. Many immigration certificates became available, as the orchestra could provide employment for the refugees. The new immigrants themselves provided fresh talent and energy for cultural pursuits in the yishuv. … In 1948, the orchestra changed its name to the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra. (wikipedia)

Another example is the Palestinian Football team:

The team was founded in 1928 by Yosef Yekutieli, leader of the Jewish sports organisation Maccabi World Union, under the newly formed "Palestine Football Association", so-named in order to qualify for membership of FIFA (which required teams to be representative of the population of their country). It achieved FIFA membership in 1929 (etc)

Meanwhile, Zuheir Moshen, commander of the PLO in the 1970s said explicitly that there was no such thing as the Palestinian people:

In a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw, Mohsen made the following statement :
"The Palestinian people does not exist … there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of one people, the Arab nation [...] Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons[...] Once we have acquired all our rights in all of Palestine, we must not delay for a moment the reunification of Jordan and Palestine". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen

You're seriously misrepresenting a post there and being disingenuous to other posters who I doubt very much are having "delusional fantasies". They may have a different opinion or view, but they are not delusional

This generic accusation of anti semitism every time someone criticises Israel is really tiring and adds nothing to the topic at hand. I suppose it only serves as a "counter argument" when there is no other counter argument can be made. Bit like the "my dad's bigger than your dad" kind of argument.

Israel's "embedded institutions" are of course racist, even against its own citizens. Israel has been called an apartheid State, a Genocidal State, a Pariah Nation because that is what it is.

But I do agree that it is most certainly "going nowhere" - it will be stained forever with the brutal murdering spree it is currently engaged in. Individuals of course will hopefully going to The Hague - as will Israel itself.

Feel free to engage directly with the other poster(s) - I was under the impression discussing other posters was against the rules and I'll not be discussing them with you.

Also, there's no point discussing your general point with me because I never made any such statement about Anthony Blinken or Nazionists.

There may be one specific line in a post that I agree with, a new point is raised or a fact is presented that I didn't know about. Its just common courtesy I think to thank posters for making the effort. It doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the entire post. To equate me "thanking" a post/poster to a full agreement with the post is naïve.

It does illustrate just how much influence Israel has over the western media. Netanyahu claims something outrageous (without offering a shred of evidence to back it up) and the media run with the story as if it is an established fact.

It's not a misrepresentation at all, given the poster's history.

It's interesting that you take issue with me for using 'delusional fantasies' but have no issue with a direct deployment of the 'ol Rat-like Jew' trope.

This generic denial of obvious of anti-semitism every time someone is clearly anti-semitic is really tiring and adds nothing to the conversation. There is no other arguement to be made to rasicm and anti-semitism online other than to call it out.

Israel isn't an apartheid state, it's not genocidal, and it's not a pariah. Normal business will resume upon cessation of war, including with the Arab nations.

What Israeli institutions are racist? How did you tolerate living in a racist country when you were there?

It most certainly is an apartheid state, running the occupied territories under a two tiered system.

Care to comment on this from Haaretz today? Seems you're badly misinformed.

• An Israeli airstrike late Monday struck the central Zoqaq al-Blat neighborhood of Beirut, close to the UN headquarters, parliament, the prime minister's office and several embassies, with no prior IDF warning. Lebanon's state-run National News Agency said two missiles hit the area. The Lebanese Health Ministry said four people were killed in the strike.

Many many opinions don't make a single solitary fact no matter how badly you want it.

The post in question didn't critise Israel for the deaths of children, it expressed an opinion that the sooner Israel was erased off the map the better, and then called them rats.

That eventuality could only occur with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jews. That's anti-semitism, no two ways about it.

And yet you thanked it!

I look forward to 20 posts condeming Hamas and their continueing war against their own people.