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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    "Time will tell".

    Ever since this invasion kicked off, I've noticed and previously noted it on the previous thread, damned near every single pro Putin type I've encountered online and off uses this phrase, usually when spewing yet another round of Kremlin Nazi Bio Birds spin aimed at confusion, or something the same Kremlin spin knows will hurt them.

    So when you read/hear "Time will tell" it's a near given it's coming from a Putinist.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,637 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Taught it to Dictator Trump. All fear, all the time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    Just because a newspaper says something (or not) doesn't make it true.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    It is a standard dictator's playbook. It is stupid, but it works — the dictator creates problems, then stokes the fear, misdirecting the cause of the problems (=bad governance or actual malice) to the opponents of the dictator's clique, or towards some marginalized community.

    Example: the Bolshevik's government created food shortages that killed millions in the USSR, would they admit that their collectivisation policies failed? Of course not, instead, they used the crisis to confiscate food from, and to deport and kill the very people who could have solved the food crisis — the slightly wealthier peasants ("kulaks").

    Why is it stupid? Because even baboons employ the same trick — a baboon "alpha male" sometimes prevents the group from foraging in the best places, to create the artificial shortage of resources so that he can control the group easier. We, the supposed homo sapiens, are supposed to be smarter than baboons, yet somehow leaders that fit the baboon type regularly get into power in many countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,284 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Videos today from Odessa. Russian missile with cluster munitions hit a high rise. Civilian corpses lying on rge street amidst the destruction. This comes after a similar strike in Sumy.

    There's also a video of a Russian lancet destroying a HIMARS unit but it's reported the crew survived. Ukraine have only lost 2 or 3 of these units since the beginning of the war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    Yeah absolutely horrible scenes from Odesa. They've been without power the last couple of nights also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    ”Time will tell”

    Expect new daily meatball production records



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,635 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    We know what you mean.

    You mean you love Putin and Ukraine should just surrender.

    FFS the little coward has had 50 red lines by now and done nothing when all were broken.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Seems the use of the American missiles is only for the Kursk region. Le Figaro has removed it's report claiming the UK and France had given the go-ahead on Storm Shadow/SCALP missile use. This doesn't seem to have been accurate but maybe there'll be more on this later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    Let's hope Le Figaro is wrong. Hard to believe this cowardness from the EU countries, really pathetic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    The only response has been vague threat both by “Friends of Putin” in this thread and Russian newspapers as reported here

    along the lines of “it be a pity if we armed the Houtis some more and they struck an aircraft carrier”

    Which is hilarious as Fox News (which we know Trump not only watches but picks his cabinet from) would go absolutely ape **** drawing up lists of countries to invade

    And remembering the last time Russians tried attacking Americans in Syria only to be wiped out like rats

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,284 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Anyone who continues to insist Ukraine should "settle" for peace and the west should stop supporting Ukraine is either trolling, a paid poster or inherently evil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed, it's grim at this stage that these individuals still persist.

    "I just want peace" "I just want this to end"

    Also here's countless comments attempting to shift blame away from Putin's invasion, supporting his disinfo and concern-trolling support for Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    There's definitely an element of pro-Russian trollery at play.

    But the reality is that unconditional victory is not possible for either side and the eventual settlement is going to fall somewhere in the gray zone in between outright Russian annexation and Ukrainian recapture of all their sovereign territory. What shape that will take - I have no idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Accusing anyone who looks at this war objectively wrt the position on the battlefield as "pro-Russian" is absurd and got tiresome ages a go.

    If Ukraine was blitzing the battlefield it would be being shouted about from the rooftops. Unfortunately there is nothing to shout about because we haven't been in that situation in such a long time.

    Maybe it will change again but so long as Russia makes gains you can't expect others to just ignore it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Time for South Korea to get the finger out too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I get the impression that the actual military theatre will become secondary as we move into 2025 (and the Trump presidency). The real impetus will come from whatever external leverage is exercised upon the parties.

    The EU is really going to have to show some courage and unity - as we already know that Trump sees no strategic imperative for the US in Ukraine (he's wrong, but that's the position he will take).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Well, the "friends of Ukraine" need to be honest with the Ukrainians. They wont fight Russia for Ukraine. They cant replace the losses Ukraine is suffering. They cant provide enough weapons to Ukraine. They cant prevent Ukraine's power being knocked out. Even economic support is dubious given the troubles in Germany.

    The "friends of Ukraine" have no realistic plan that can change the direction of the conflict. All they can do is try sabotage any effort at negotiations, as they have done for years. Over which time Ukraine's situation has gotten worse and worse. But still the "friends of Ukraine" insist no negotiations. Fight on to the last Ukrainian.

    As for Peskov - obviously freezing the conflict is unacceptable to the Russians. Any talk of trying to negotiate a freeze is purely NATO fantasising. Actual negotiations will need to address the causes of the conflict.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The causes of the war?
    Do you mean Russia's desire to dominate and plunder Ukraine, steal its resources and reduce it to a vassal state like Belarus?

    They are the causes of the war.

    Anything drivel about fear of NATO is just "Russian fantasising" for propaganda purposes.
    Russia already signed an agreement with NATO, under which Ukraine can join NATO. In that agreement, NATO made declarations which it has honoured so far with regard to permanent stationing of forces, nuclear weapons etc in countries freed from the yoke of the USSR.
    If Russia has any real concern about a threat from NATO, it would not have stripped its forces from NATO borders to send to Ukraine.

    How do you address those or do you just implicitly accept Russia's word in everything? Does that make you a "friend of Russia" by your own prejudicial wording? Or is this just an instinctive blame the West rather than hold Russia to any kind of standard in morality, war crimes, diplomacy etc?

    Ukraine fights because they see it better to fight today with weapons in hand, that to fight a re-armed Russia tomorrow alone, and leave more of their people subject to atrocities like Bucha, to rape and execution.

    Where are your condemnations of Russia's breaches of previous negotiated agreements, if you value negotiations so much?
    Where are your condemnations that Russia is waging an illegal war of aggression, and conducting that with war crimes against civilians?
    Ukraine fights on because nobody trusts Russia to engage in good faith negotiations and honour any agreement signed.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    Nations don't have friends unfortunately, what they do have is strategic interests. Ukraine is of no strategic interest to Washington and even less now with Trump around the corner. If should be an absolute strategic interest to Europe which is why i find it baffling our response to this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,284 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I guess this is how Russia retaliates and escalates the recent escalation of Ukraine allowed to use ATACMS in Kursk.

    Some would have you believe nuke's would fly. In reality sub sea cables are targeted instead.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Technology/wireStory/data-cable-baltic-sea-finland-germany-broken-cause-115963143



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,420 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's without question that Russian intelligence have something on Trump himself or his absolute bell end son, it's the only logical explanation for the fawning and the sheer level of subservience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Approaching it from Trump's perspective, his concern seems to be more on China, Middle East, Iran.
    Well, even within that, approached from that view a strong Ukraine is to be preferred.

    A Russia dominant over a prostate Ukraine is in a better position to help China, Iran, etc in any other conflict.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    outright victory is not necessarily the Goal. Escalation avoidance has frustratingly been the number 1 priority of the western allies since this war began. However It has to be demonstrated that starting wars of aggression on the European continent in the 21st century is a futile and extremely painful exercise. If this fails to deter wars of aggression then clearly Europe needs to shift towards a permanent war type of economy which is something that no one wants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭junkyarddog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The acts are tiresome.

    Prior to the war there was much more direct support of Putin and his anti-Western viewpoints. Post-war that was more difficult to get away with. So supporters adapted by using a variety of disingenuous techniques, one of these was this act of "being objective", cosplaying that they were objective about the conflict when in reality they held an agenda. There were a lot of giveaways to this, e.g. they would never call out other Putin supporters, and would even thank and support them - all pretty transparent stuff.

    Most people are realistic about the war, however many choose, through support of Ukraine to focus on positives.

    Putin supporters (and anti-Western types) undermine that support/optimism because it irritates them. Yeah it's that simple in many cases. As mentioned they are careful to disguise that with the "objectivity" mask.

    It's all very easy to spot. We've even seen new posters invest weeks and weeks into apparent support for Ukraine, only to rip off the mask and go full Clare Daly.

    A lot of hijinks going on.

    TLDR it's very easy to tell the difference between an individual who genuinely supports Ukraine and those who don't.

    Anyway moving on, Ukraine to receive 4,000 AI assisted drones from Germany, apparently some have already been tested in Donbas. No idea how these perform but should (hopefully) be better than the old Switchblades Ukr got.

    https://mil.in.ua/en/news/media-ukraine-to-receive-4000-german-attack-drones-with-artificial-intelligence/

    "Once the drone has identified the target and the operator has confirmed it, it is then able to strike autonomously, even if communication is lost, i.e., apparently, a homing system is used at the final part of the flight.

    The German publication also states that the range of this kamikaze drone is allegedly four times longer than that of typical Ukrainian counterparts."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭junkyarddog


    Hmmmm,Who would do such a thing??

    Let me think….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    Well look what happened with Nordstream so no point jumping to conclusions



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