Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland's reliance on Corporation Tax receipts

1246710

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Yeah right. Or maybe you decided to randomly take a swipe at another poster for no reason at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    He is a well known re reg who sees russian boogeymen in every thread

    Pay no heed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    And just like that a conspiracy theorist crawls out of the dung pile

    QED



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    However, these healthy surpluses are being driven by abnormal levels of corporate tax receipts mainly from US multinationals of nearly €30 billion this year, which are projected to grow to €40 billion in 2030 if there is no disruption.

    The Department of Finance and Public Expenditure has estimated that about half of those receipts should be considered windfall in nature, as they may not persist in to the future. That means for 2025, windfall corporate tax receipts are expected to be €15.4 billion, growing to €19 billion by 2030.

    Even the department of finance class half our corporate tax receipts as "windfall" in nature, and expect them not to last.

    Will we be running a 19bn surplus in 2030? I doubt it. That leaves us open to a massive deficit should these windfall taxes dry up.

    https://www.businesspost.ie/article/fine-gael-comfortable-with-spending-growing-portion-of-risky-corporate-tax-receipts-harris-and-d/?utm_source=latestnews&utm_medium=homepage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Lads, when the **** hits the fan again, at least this time FFG are joined at the hip, the recklessness rests fully on them...instead of 2008 where FF were at the wheel, but obviously Fg would have done the same...

    There options we have here, are all appalling when it comes to prudence, every bloody metric...



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭crusd


    As has quite rightly been pointed out Trump tariffs will not result in multinationals relocating to the US overnight. To transfer a pharma plant would take a minimum of 2 years, and if you believe countries would not reciprocate you are deluded. So who is going to supply the rest of the world.

    The short to medium term impact of Tariffs would be increased prices for US consumers driving up inflation, reduced exports from US companies as other countries reciprocate, if manufacturing does return to the US increased immigration to fill roles and labour shortages in certain sectors driving real goods / service shortages further driving inflation. Tariffs will and always have resulted in stagnation and inflation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The risk isn't from MNCs leaving Ireland, it's of MNCs no longer being able to offshore their profits to Ireland.

    IP related corporate taxes are classified as windfall in nature by our own Department of Finance, and could vanish overnight from tax reforms or regulations in the US. Or from the US deciding to drop their CT rate to 15% also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,691 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭crusd




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    One simply does not build a 30,000sq ft facility, invest hundreds of millions and hire 1000 people for the laugh

    There are cheaper ways to “offshore IP”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    There is over 15bn in taxes related to IP that is "onshored" in Ireland, as per Department of Finance.

    These are the taxes identified by the department as not actually relating to economic activity in this country, but instead by shifting profits around the world including through here. These windfall taxes are not tied to any plant, factory or headcount in this country - they are simply clever accounting practices that we happen to benefit from (for now).

    Again the Department of Finance seems to recognise these risks and warn of the dangers to our tax base - but a few posters on boards.ie seem to know better? Lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,691 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not a single cogent policy has been put forth to address the trade deficit however. The overwhelming majority of it is from pharmaceuticals and putting tariffs on that is just going to force Americans to pay more for products they can't get elsewhere. It isn't going to do anything to bring manufacturing back to the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    "Its nonsense that Ireland of all places" I am impressed that people outside the country, are actually aware that this country, is a banana republic…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭crusd


    I hope you are being sarcastic. Otherwise this is self hating nonsense.

    There are lots of things that can be improved in this country and we should look to elect people who will actuallu drive to improve them and not hand out goodies to every interest group. But this idea that its a awful place to live that seems to infect discourse is patent nonsense. By any measure its one of the best places to live in the planet. Would you rather be poor in Mayo or Mississippi



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    More publicity Ireland doesn't need at this time, but the bike shed made the front page of the WSJ 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    We're going to be singled out for special treatment.

    Not unfairly it has to be said. If I was American I wouldn't be happy either.

    Having said that the government has to plan for a sharp reduction in national income and also be prepared to protect the national interest much like with Brexit.

    All political parties are making reckless promises on income that could disappear so quickly. We're more likely to be back in austerity than see this state of affairs survive the next US administration. We are badly exposed to the whims of Trump's cabal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Lads! Dont panic, the economic fundamentals are sound, like Bertie Aherne once said… Dont be worrying you simple little people, Simon Harris , Michael Martin and our world class politicians and civil servants, have it all under control…



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    In the future, if we get bailed out again, give the IMF should dictate, as we cant run ourselves, they are going to appoint the finance minister or maybe insist, that they have to clear the budgets, I'd be happy with either…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The economic fundamentals are very sound hence why Income Tax and VAT are also rising quickly which indicates a highly performing economy.

    The problem is in the Corporation Tax area, most of which derives from tax on IP companies have based here.

    There is absolutely no problem if that money is only spent on Capital projects or stuffed away in the rainy day funds. It could disappear and it wouldn't be an issue for living standards or the general public.

    If, however, any of it is spent on day to day that's where the trouble lies.

    As for our civil servants - I can guarantee a large lobbying effort is about to get underway to protect this country's interests in the US.

    Whether or not it will have any success remains to be seen but make no mistake the state agencies are fully aware of the risks the Trump administration poses and they are preparing for it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,691 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    How exactly is it you think we will be singled out for special treatment?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Larger tariffs on Pharma and other products exported from Ireland back to the US is the most likely and effective tool. Trump is out for countries with the largest trade surpluses which he sees as ripping off the US will be targeted most. Ireland is near the top of that list, unfortunately for us.

    Don't be surprised to see at least 60% tariffs on certain sectors here. Similar to what he's going to put on the German car industry.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,691 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If the US puts massive tarriffs on pharma from Ireland (which he really can't do as pointedly as that) all that will happen is that people in the US have to pay a lot more for viagra and heart medication.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Yes but what happens to exports and jobs here? The idea here is to re-shore these operations to the US. You're assuming they'll simply stay here and become uncompetitive in the US market. That seems unlikely.

    It depends obviously if this is what the Trump admin ultimately does (they'll be lobbied by the corporates etc too) but given the characters he has put in his administration that have specifically singled out Ireland publicly we need to be concerned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The EU makes up 60% of all US pharma imports, it's going to be a lot more than Viagra affected. Certainly stings for the US population when they have to pay more because of the lack of free healthcare. You also have the situation where companies will just stay put because the time and money it takes to move facilities etc… they would be better off just riding out Trumps 4 year term. It's not like the pharma companies are paying the tariffs anyway.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,691 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Nothing?
    Many of these drugs don't have competition in the US market. They are not fungible products. So they'll just stay in Ireland, people in the US will pay more and we wait til Trump is gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    Can US not just make their own copies of these drugs and set up manufacturing plants on their own soil?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    If he wanted to re-shore the the operations, he needs to offer the carrot, not the stick. Take a page out of Biden's book with the chip act and incentivise those companies to open US pharma plants. Biden didn't go slapping 60% tariffs on chips from Ireland, Israel and Taiwan etc….

    With pharma, they won't be uncompetitive in some meditations/products as they hold the patents. It's not like some other company can just open a US factory and start producing the products etc…

    I'm not saying Trump is wrong is saying a trade deficit is bad, but you don't go correcting it by punishing US consumers with higher prices via tariffs. Pill V (under patent) will jump from $100 to $160 for the US consumer due to tariffs and it will take maybe 1 year for the company to open and US plant. When the US plant opens, well the consumers are already use to paying $160 for pill V, I can't see the pharma company offering it cheaper!



Advertisement