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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Welcome to the forum!

    I agree, I don't really love the Beirne at 6 pick. Just don't feel we get the best from him there, and he's too talented for that. Didn't think he went brilliantly at 6 in the second test in SA either. I'd have started him alongside Ryan here, put Joe on the bench for impact, and picked one of the younger 6s to start.

    I don't think any of them are at Wallace Sititi's level (despite him being younger than all of them I think), but agree they will bring a bit more dynamism to the pack overall.

    I agree as well on Conan - think we got another reminder of how valuable he is from his absence last week. I'm a little fearful though that he might be moving on at season's end.

    I'm really excited for Sam Prendergast to make his debut. I think he's the youngest player to make his potential debut for Ireland since Ryan Baird back in 2021. Really hope it goes well for him.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,350 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    warned for this???

    because a mod doesnt think it "adds anything".

    what has happened to this place??

    mod: warned.

    Post edited by awec on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Does seem strange to warn this post. Excellent points IMO and right to flag it up. A lot of good posters have moved on over the years as a result. There needs to be a review on how to make the Irish thread a more healthy place as it frequently turns toxic.

    The soccer forum is membership only. Maybe this would help us reduce the amount of incendiary posts immediately post match which would a generate a healthier debate in the following days rather than allowing the ‘sea gulls’ to stir the pot for a week?

    mod: warned.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,874 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think Beirne is just starting to show his age and that slight drop in athleticism is far more exposed at 6 than in the row.

    Personally I'd put McCarthy back to the bench and tell him he has a lot of details to work on before he's starting again.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,545 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Do not discuss mod actions on thread. This is not the thread to discuss how the forum is moderated, nor is a place to take a pop at other posters, nor is it a place to take a dig at certain provincial threads.

    If your post is not about Ireland and about rugby you will be warned.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Last year we (and by we I mean both Munster and Ireland) flogged Beirne, Ireland used him against Fiji, that's a game where Ireland should be trying another option



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,780 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Half of the XV? and who?

    Well obviously not half of them as that would result in half a person. To be pedantic 7 one week and 8 the next… As for who… Anybody, the idea is to make a point to the players that there are consequences to playing like they did last week

    Just on a slightly separate note. Henshaw coming in for Aki is also not the most inspiring of changes.

    Agreed

    I really thought Osborne was deserving of a chance at 12.

    His left foot from 12 is going to give Ireland an excellent option.

    We have James Lowe more than capable of executing that option if we need it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Apologies @awec, have moved it to the Mod thread as it deserves consideration.

    I agree with Beirne getting a rest for Fiji. He’s played a lot of rugby since the beginning of last season (2,772mins). There’s a lot of talk of Porter being flogged-he’s managed 1,997 over the same period. Obviously he’s in a position when you’d expect to be playing less minutes. Doris played a lot over the last year too, has 2,469 in comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,997 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    That was the previous season I think phog (RWC was last season). We only had 3 fixtures that season, this season it's 4 so surely he'll sit out Fiji this time round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,780 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Argentina as well tomorrow we should be putting some fresh legs in



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,780 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Looking professional, not having so many errors, even if we lose, is better than what happened last Friday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What is the point of these games if we can't try out new lads who are in great form? Beirne shouldn't be at 6, and POM shouldn't be on the bench. Backrow is the most competitive position in the team and we're wasting the chance to give lads meaningful games there.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,492 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    And SA make 12 changes for England and go 5-3 on the bench...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Le Bruise


    Paddy Power have Ireland as 11 point favourites for tomorrow's match. Not sure how. I realise The Argies don't have a great record in Dublin, but they've just hosed Italy and aren't long after beating the All Black's, South Africa and Australia. Felipe will have them primed for this one too. Coupled with Ireland's abject performance last week makes it look too big a spread in my eyes.…But I guess you never meet a poor bookie.

    I just really hope we see a reaction from the players Farrell has trusted to go again and we get the added value from the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I like it primarily because I hated the blocking of the chasers.

    I think it will bring back the good auld Garryowen. And more spiral bombs.

    I cant see Keenan been moved from FB. I'm predicting Osborne is going to be the undisputed 12 for both Leinster and Ireland this time next year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I agree. Although, I can see the logic in keeping Beirne at 6. I would have preferred Baird but this has to be a selection primarily for LO. .

    I would have started Osborne

    But I cant think of who are the other lads who are in 'great form'.

    POM has been preferred over Prendergast and Izuchukwo. That's definitely questionable

    In reality when Conan is back he is going to the no.20 for the 6N.

    The big Qs is who is going to be the 6. Baird or Beirne?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm the opposite on this. I like Beirne at blindside. His poaching ability and his ability around the fringes is massive.

    Other than him, I would go with Cian P. Then have Baird or Izzy on the bench. Granted it looks like we've only got the 3 quality locks and there's a drop off after them but, Izzy or Baird could also give good minutes from the bench



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,646 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Prendergast and Izuchukwo I think definitely ought to have featured over the last 2 games. It's so pointless playing POM imo, he's not going to have a massive impact and he's almost done. It's a wasted game. Wish Farrell had included some more locks to give them a chance, but we have what we have. I'd like to see Osborne and Frawley get starts in the centre.

    We're so needlessly conservative, I can give it a pass for NZ. Wanting to get revenge, with the lads who lost last time out, but Argentina is a nothing game in the grand scheme of things. We should be using it get new lads experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I'm not for a second saying I'd drop Beirne, but I don't think he's played his best stuff (albeit from a small sample size at 6). There's no reason to believe you still can't get his poaching and his other key traits from playing him in the row, like we have countless times before.

    What you lose by picking him at blindside, is you're net down versus most opponents, who tend to select a more dynamic player in that position (over last week and this weekend he'll be facing Wallace Sititi and Pablo Matera, both very different players to him with very different skillsets) and we miss the chance to include a more dynamic option in our pack. We also look a little light for ball carriers IMO, and that's definitely not a strength of Beirne's relative to most blindsides.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, I get that. I just think it tips the balance too much in the favour of the team kicking the ball, and therefore encourages a lot more kicking. That's not something I necessarily want to see more of in the game.

    I'm not opposed to the concept of a change that encourages more high contests for the ball, but I think this tips the scales way too much in favour of the kicking team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I cant disagree on POM.

    Frawely at 12 is something I don't see happening. Depth is already great. Aki, Osborne, Henshaw, McCloskey and with Hugh Gavin on the horizon.

    I think he is a 12 (and not a 10 who can cover 15 and 12) but he's never going to get game time at 12 now, even at Leinster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Im ok if the team in possession will now choose to kick the ball to regather.

    1. It will keep defenders 'honest'
    2. it will slow the blitz or the amount of players in the blitz
    3. It will encourage more 'footballing' 12's
    4. And hopefully more space to run/attack, if defenders think the opposition is going kick.

    The main negative that I can see is for the wingers. The small nifty wingers who aren't good in the air will struggle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    This is it, they're trying to create space for the attacking team, teams that notice there isn't space may opt to kick and then teams that don't create the space may concede penalties on the chase back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I think they're all good and valid points in fairness, but I still just feel it is diverging too far in favour of rewarding the kicking team.

    Like most laws, I guess the proof will be in the actual implementation over the coming weeks etc. Will be keen to see how it is refereed over this weekend's games, as I felt there were a few really spurious ones this past weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    its an awful law that rewards teams who kick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I’m not a fan of it. There’s too much scope for running into the back of someone to buy a penalty which we already saw last weekend in the NZ game and Scotland SA game. Rewards a team with a lead to kick the ball away and win cheap opportunities for a kick at goal to kill the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,273 ✭✭✭TheRona


    SA will continue to do what they've been doing for the last couple of years with their small wingers. Don't actually try to catch the ball, just jump up and get a hand to it. Arendse very rarely (if ever) tries to catch the ball, he just aims to tip it back, or upset the player from the opposition enough so that they knock it on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Tapping it back is sometimes more beneficial than catching it and being tackled immediately you hit the ground



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Rugby already suffers for me from having too many rules where it's difficult to understand why the referee has given that sanction, and there is a huge amount of subjectivity involved.

    Chief amongst these are scrum penalties obviously, but very often stuff like jackal turnovers at rucks, accidental knock-ons, crooked line outs and rolling away (whether interfering with play or not). It was genuinely hard in the stadium last Friday night to understand what a lot of penalties were for until I watched it back.

    This is bringing yet another law like that onto the books IMO, where ref's interpretation is crucial. To me, it's already an incredibly difficult game to referee, and we just continue to make it more so when we introduce these sort of law changes.



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