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Would you support a basic aptitude test in order to vote?

  • 11-11-2024 08:14PM
    #1
    Site Banned Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭


    Lots of countries require immigrants to pass a citizenship test in order to achieve naturalisation and thus the right to vote (of course, Ireland's only prerequisite, it seems, is that that you open at least 5 packets of taytos...)

    This study here tested a citizen's own ability to pass their country's own naturalisation test with Australia ranking very high and UK very low:

    https://www.remitly.com/ie/en/landing/citizenship-tests

    But why shouldn't everyone first have to pass a basic knowledge test before being allowed to vote?

    Would you support a basic aptitude test in order to vote? 128 votes

    Yes
    28%
    Johnny Jukeboxlalababawiz569thebourkeRosahanerino87nhgforumdedumamovingstatuecrl84almostoverSucklerchooeytalla10Blut2jt69ermaude6868MarkY91FeisarIncognitoMan 37 votes
    No
    57%
    ManachastrofoolFighting IrishBrian?eventfitsGLaDOSStrummsmiameeMellordulpitKOJAK_1loopymumPodge_irlMacDangerMal-AdjustedchiefwiggumShelflifeAsh.J.Williamscircadian 73 votes
    "*Sigh*, yet another poorly constructed poll...
    14%
    GerardKeatingWibbschubba1984dam099GBXbanie01drunkmonkeycon___manx1paulbokCramCyclePopePalpatineBass ReevesDanzyblanch152SupaCat95suvigirl[Deleted User]boardsdotie44 18 votes


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭rock22


    An 'aptitude' test is not a test of 'basic knowledge'. Perhaps review you idea and come up with something that might make sesce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    No. I love the poorly educated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This study here tested a citizen's own ability to pass their country's own naturalisation test with Australia ranking very high and UK very low

    It's debatable, to put it no higher, whether these citizenship tests measure anything of importance. They certainly don't measure civic responsiblity or political awareness and I think it would be bizarre to base voting rights on them.

    What the Australian test mainly measures is command of English — most people who fail the test do so because they misunderstand the questions or they cannot express the answers clearly. Most people who sit the test already have permanent resident status and have been living in Australia for years. There are countless reports of people failing the test despite a considerable history of living, working, paying taxes, raising a family, community engagement, volunteering, etc in Australia.

    The failure rate for the UK citizenship test is much higher because it's a much tougher test. This has nothing to do with measuring civic virtue or responsibility; it's simply an aspect of the "hostile environment" policy of making settling in the UK as difficult and unpleasant as possible. The questions have nothing to do with acceptable standards of citizenship; they're largely trivia designed to catch out as many people as possible. People have been asked things like "Who made the film Four Weddings and a Funeral?", "Name the patron saints of the countries of the UK, and the feast day of each of them" and "Is the UK a member of OPEC?".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭Dan Steely
    1 missile, 165 schoolgirls


    "…and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    No

    No don't think it's a great idea at all.

    What about the many tradesmen that left school without a leaving cert, are running successful businesses and contributing taxes to the exchequer?

    They'd be disqualified from voting under your plan assuming they can't pass an aptitude test. Even though they would be contributing a lot more financially via taxes versus someone that isn't but can pass an aptitude test.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,174 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    "*Sigh*, yet another poorly constructed poll...

    You forgot to add that candidates will also be required to prove fit and proper for the good of the people to receive a vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,042 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    Only if the 'aptitude test' can be contrived in the intervening weeks of an election by the sitting government. Seems democratic to me. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭POBox19


    No

    Project 25 Ireland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No

    Invest the money in educating people about how politics works instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    No

    The ability to vote should be available to the widest possible grouping of people possible, so of course my answer here is no.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,286 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    sounds very 'democratic'!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Yes

    The test should only measure a person's understanding of government, how it works, what a TD can and can't do, what actually is the government's remit.

    What is councillors remit, etc.

    Maybe it would stop people voting for councillors to address national issues, or voting for TDs to fix the roads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭forumdedum


    Yes

    an aptitude test to stand for election?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    "*Sigh*, yet another poorly constructed poll...

    The main reason I would be very oppossed to this, is that this is exactly how Voter Suppression works.

    Game the "questions" and answers to suit your chosen demographic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    No

    No but I would like to see compulsory media literacy training in all schools so that people could be better handled to spot disinformation and misinformation. Quite a lot of adults need that training too but I can't think of a way to roll it out to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,192 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    No

    It would be too open to manipulation or accusations of manipulation. At every level.

    Would much rather see the money involved go in to encouraging people to vote and making it rewarding to do so.

    Put a plate of biscuits/tin of sweets at the exit to a polling station, see your voter turnout go up 3% immediately. I'm joking, but you get the point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Mannesmann


    No

    No. Where would it end? How would it be constructed? In a way the voting process, by the effort involved and the complexity (not too difficult really) acts as its own filter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    "*Sigh*, yet another poorly constructed poll...

    Same as with an "aptitude test to vote". Too easy to use it to exclude candidates which those in power might not want elected.

    The only people "testing" candidates should the electorate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Maybe a general knowledge test would be better.

    Q No 1

    What is the preferred aspect of a window box for growing lettuce 🥬.



  • Posts: 9,954 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The tests used in other countries do not require reading and writing. They are can you speak the local language and general knowledge about the country. Any tradesman would be well able to talk about who the leaders of the country are and the general state of the nation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Most other countries don't have knowledge, literacy or information tests for voters. Those that do are generally assumed to be engaged in thinly-disguised racial or other discrimination — e.g. the literacy tests that, up until the 1960s, were widely used in some US states to disenfranchise black citizens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭notAMember


    No

    Nope. I did the naturalisation in another country, the questions on these tests are in no way relevant to capability to be rational.

    It’s about language, local history and culture, favourite local food and cakes, sports clubs.

    Ireland doesn’t even have a test or interview, right? It’s a form about where your grandad was born?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It's a form about where your grandad was born if you qualify for citizenship on the basis of descent.

    But no country has a literacy or knowledge for those who qualify for citizenship by descent. The countries which have tests like that use them in cases of citizenship by naturalisation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    Yes

    On that wry comment, I find it utterly incredible that every nominated candidate for election to a taxpayer-funded position in local/national or European elections isn't required to provide an up to date tax clearance certificate to the electoral body BEFORE their name can be put on the ballot paper. (if nothing else, this would ensure that the likes of Kinahan would be kept away!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Maybe election candidates should have to pass that test before running ...? There are a few famous sitting TD's that may not pass...😃



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,884 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,378 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    I think everyone should be allowed to vote but there should be a weighting factor to each vote based on a standardised IQ test.

    I think it's desperately unfair that a stupid person's vote counts for the same as my one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Mannesmann




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 9,865 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    No

    No - as the Americans so memorable put it "No taxation without representation". If one wishes to garner more support for one's political view, then one can donate/spend time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    No

    I voted no.

    I think you're on to something though, OP.

    Anyone who thinks satellites aren't real (while using a mobile phone daily) should be banned from voting

    Anyone who thinks all space flight has been faked and all of the governments of the world are in on the conspiracy should also be banned

    Lastly, anyone who adds an unnecessary S to the end of certain words, like LIDLS, TESCOS, TAYTOS etc should be shot into the sun.



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