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Insulating a shed roof only (Metal Roof, Block Walls)

  • 05-11-2024 12:00PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭


    That time of year again....loads of threads about condensation! The good ol' Irish climate.

    I have a block built shed which has a corrugated metal roof. Noticing a little bit of moisture forming on the inside of the roof on the colder days but the shed doesn't feel too damp inside. I have tools and other metal surfaces in there but no condensation is forming on these - just the roof.

    I am wondering if there is any benefit to insulating the roof only? Or will that cause problems elsewhere? If it's a good idea, what is the best insulation to use - rigid or fibreglass? I've attached a pic of the roof for reference.

    I don't have the time/money at the moment to fully insulate the whole shed and walls. So just want to try and improve it slightly if I can.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,525 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I'd be inclined to leave it alone. The roof is acting like a dehumidifier.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Sleamhain


    Oh ok, really? Never thought of it like that. But as long as it only forms on the roof and drips it's not too much of an issue?

    So just for a bit more background. We moved into this house and don't know the exact construction of the shed, I assume the concrete floor has some kind of DPC in it, as I have never seen any dampness on the floor (as I have in another outbuilding with a concrete floor). That other outbuilding always has very heavy moisture on the roof in winter time and things get damp in there.

    So I moved everything over to this shed in the summer time as I had never seen it damp. The shed was however open to the elements on one side, so very drafty. I've since closed that up with a timber stud wall clad in OSB and put a door on it. Not sealed airtight by any means, but far less drafty - so that might be creating additional moisture?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,525 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Ventilation in unheated, unplumbed outdoor buildings is a bit complicated, in my opinion.

    Probably worth getting a hygrometer and measuring the humidity in a few different weather conditions

    https://www.growshop.ie/product/essentials-digital-min-max-thermo-hygrometer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    What planned ventilation does the shed have now? Are the eaves sealed with foam etc or is there airflow?
    Installing a wall vent in each gable end would probably eliminate most of your issue I suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Sleamhain


    The eaves are not sealed at all.

    There would also be some ventilation through the roof cap, there is a metal ridge cap across the apex, again not sealed, so should be some ventilation there.

    But yeah, maybe an additional bit of cross ventilation might help



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Spray foam insulation is the best solution, ensure building is well ventilated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Ive seen this in a neighbours shed…. spray foam insulation…

    clear roof panels on one side…. full apartment built inside … its on Airbnb at 350 per night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    If you have the ventilation you don't need the insulation, without a heat source the ventilation is going to keep it cold anyway, so the insulation wont really do much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭monseiur


    The correct build up of roof should be : Corrugated metal sheeting on 75mm x 50 treated battens on roofing membrane (a.k.a. felt) on heavy duty chicken wire mesh or battens.

    Metal roofs will drip under certain climatic conditions even with ventilation, similarly a well insulated building will ''sweat'' under certain conditions so ventilation is important. The OP's shed has a little window with a top ope, if there's a similar ope on the other gable that should supply adequate air circulation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71 ✭✭kaizer13


    My immediate thoughts too. Sounds as though its working well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Sleamhain


    Colder morning today than there had been so far, and quite a bit more moisture in the roof than has been before. Everything else in the building (tools/surfaces) is still dry but cold.

    I will look at improving the ventilation after some of the comments here. Have also taken on board the points that the roof is doing it's job as a 'dehumidifier' and insulation not necessarily required.

    Is there a benefit to putting a breathable membrane between the rafters and the roofing sheets though - thinking it might be useful to prevent any drips from the roof if the moisture gets any heavier?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Sleamhain


    Thanks for all the responses by the way, much appreciated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    You could put on some of this stuff
    https://nordroofs.ie/product/DEWEB+NTS+Anti-Condensation+Felt
    to stop drips, basically it will hold the condensation until it evaporates naturally.

    Lots of panels will come it it already installed these days, but you can retro these self-adhesive rolls too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭monseiur


    A breathable membrane should have been put under roofing sheets and supported by heavy gauge chicken mesh due to wide spacing of roof rafters. This would ensure no condensation / drips



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,525 ✭✭✭✭Lumen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Sleamhain


    If I go ahead with installing the membrane, do I definitely need battens, or can I just install the roof panels directly back on top of the membrane and screw it back down leaving it slightly draped between rafters to let the moisture run down?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭monseiur


    I have never seen the membrane installed as you describe but I guess it should work OK as it serves the same principle. Normally heavy gauge chicken wire is put over the rafters (to support the membrane) then 3'' x 2'' treated battens over the membrane. But I note that the design of your roof is somewhat different in that instead of battens laid on rafters you have purlins fitted between the rafters. Perhaps you could fit an extra run of purlins between all the existing ones to support the membrane and use clout nails to tack it on otherwise it may sag.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭monseiur


    As the membrane will be over the rafters there will be a gap between wall plate & membrane to allow air to circulate so there should be no issue with humidity but serious issue of dripping condensation will be eliminated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    So the membrane is there to catch the drips rather than prevent them from forming? I think you are either going to end up with puddles in the membrane or the water will run off to a low point and you will have a bigger problem than a few drips.

    I would just use the self adhesive membrane on the underside of the metal roof, thats what its for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Sleamhain


    But isn't that what the membrane is for too on a normal roof, like in a house? To let the moisture out, but not back in, where it can run off - into a gutter at the bottom?

    The thing I don't like about the felt in this case is if I have to replace one or multiple roof sheets, then the felt gets discarded with it. Whereas the membrane can stay in place if I needed to replace any sheets



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Well I would say in an attic the primary purpose is to stop water from getting in, while also being breathable (though attics are or at least should be very well ventilated)

    If you are replacing roof sheets then I wouldn't worry about the cost of a couple more m2 of felt tbh.

    This use case is exactly what anti condensation felt is for, lots of metal roof panels will come it it pre installed these days, since its such an issue in metal sheds.

    Are you on a concrete base and if so, do you know if its has a DPM installed? If not, sealing this might help to reduce the moist thats getting in. If you are not sure, tape a plastic sheet on all 4 sides to the floor and see what it looks like a day later. If its wet underneath then thats where your water is coming from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,076 ✭✭✭whizbang


    Its a metal roof… It wont rot.

    Treat it the same as the sides, put airtight layer, insulation etc.

    the only moisture then, will be the tiny bit of outside air that won't condense, as the sheet metal will be at the same temperature.

    The tiniest bit of sunshine will flash off any possible bit of



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Assuming no damp is coming in from the slab…



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