Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I had to google these “excuses” that Farrell made for the defeat. Turns out he made these comments two days before the game.

Presenting something someone said as something completely different is the absolute definition of disingenuous.

a fair bit of gnashing of teeth on here after friday night.

Maybe people starting to realise the Irish players aren’t at the level the Irish Media say they are.

Argentina will be more of a handful than NZ

Cant see Ireland putting in another poor performance , but will it be enough ?

Team id like to see, Porter, Herring, Furlong, McCarthy, Beirne, Prendergast, JDF, Doris, JPG, Crowley, Lowe, Frawley, Ringrose, Hansen/Nash, Keenan.

Subs: Boyle, Kelleher, Bealham, Ryan, Timony, Izuchukwu, Casey, Osborne.

You’re the only one calling them excuses, maybe the guy was just answering a question in a press conference like, you know, a normal human being.

If we’d had Kleyn sitting in the stands on Friday night, how would this have impacted the game, do you think?

If we’d had Kleyn sitting in the stands on Friday night, how would this have impacted the game, do you think?

If we had Kleyn coming on from the stands on Friday night, do you think he might have played better than Henderson?

I think this is what we'll see this coming weekend tbh, and would have no qualms about it.

let it rest. Move on. Next week is a new game

Andy Farrell not picking Kleyn doesn't prove he was right any more than Rassie picking Kleyn proves Farrell was wrong.

But the reason the Kleyn (and to a lesser extent, Haley and Frisch, Coombes etc.) arguments keep coming back up is because there's a feeling that these players are significantly underrated by some on here. Rassie picking Kleyn, at a minimum, suggests as much, tbh.

"Hands like a pair of tits" is just not true of Kleyn any more. It's just not. (I'd go as far as suggesting he's less prone to a handling error than Joe McCarthy has seemed for us of late).

The system fit is also overstated imo; does he suit SA more? Yes. Does this suggest he'd have nothing to offer the Irish system? No. As far as I'm aware Munster operated with the quickest ruck ball under 3 seconds of any team in the URC the season they won it. Kleyn was a large part of that. And that is something that would very much suit Ireland's style.

Haley, I understood why he wasn't picked prior to the RWC with squad limitations; we were never picking a dedicated 2nd choice 15. Since then I think he's been unlucky with the timing of injuries. He's started the season brilliantly, despite Munster's poor form. For me, he was better than Keenan in the Leinster game, despite Munster themselves being poor that day.

Coombes mentioned above as well; strongly believe some posters vastly underrate him on here. I've made this point before - we had 19 Tests vs Tier 1 Nations prior to the RWC and had a total of 36 minutes given outside of the 4 incumbents. You had to go back to CJ Stander for a previous example, iirc. I think all posters would agree back-row is an area of strength in depth for us, I think it's fair to say we could have seen more change there.

I don't expect this post to get any kind of love on here, but I'm pretty tired of this being laid at the door of Munster fans…

Some interesting takes to say the least over the last few pages. Kleyn and Archer (especially, he's been fantastic) are completely different players with ball in hand since Mike Prendergast arrived, they're proof that any rugby player with the right coaching can have good handling. Doris used have howlers, Joe Mc still does… players can improve, so I don't think handling is anything you can level at Kleyn, you're judging him on when he was crap at it, not on how he's been since.

I don't think it's THAT outrageous to suggest that Frisch was worth a look in an extended squad based on his Munster performances. Haley, I get to an extent, he's a one-position player. I still think he's comfortably the second-best 15 in Ireland but I get why not in the RWC squad.

I don't think it's THAT outrageous that Coombes was/still is worth a look - he was just back from injury in that Maori game where he was poor (and had performed well in NZ the previous summer) and looks to have been left completely out in the cold after that performance. His carries, tries, offensive and defensive rucks, tackle stats are insane over the last number of seasons. Are we to say that Frawley, who gave possibly THE all-time worst performance I've ever seen from a sub for us, is now never don the jersey again? Are we f**k on here! Noone is saying Coombes should take Doris' place, just that we should cast the net a bit at 8 beyond Conan and Doris. It's great that Izzy is getting a look and Cian Prendergast did, Tom Aherne was unlucky with injuries ahead of Six Nations, tours etc. Who is our next 7 if JvdF gets an injury in training?

Why is Sam Prendergast, who has never started in the Heineken Cup… a massive 20 caps, 8 starts for his club… his senior playing minutes total less than 10 games… so let's be honest here he's really still only in rugby nappies… why are people saying he should be getting parachuted in ahead of Jack Crowley who led Munster to the URC, scoring a winning drop-goal in the semi, led Ireland to a Six Nations… or ahead of Frawley who has far more of a body of work? Or have we yet another 'generational' player? Why is David McCann not generational? Or Scott Wilson? Or Niall Murray the season where he dominated almost every lineout he was in? They've done far more than him at senior club level so far performance-wise imo. Let him develop, he'd be eaten alive internationally in a game where our pack perform like that. At the very least Crowley has experience of being behind a struggling pack, I thought he did okay under the circumstances the other night, nowhere near as bad as some made out. If he's (SP) good enough his time will come, I don't think he's anywhere near ready yet.

Would agree that it's time to say good luck and thanks to Healy (absolutely baffling he was picked for this series), POM (there's plenty of six cover)… Conor Murray, I'd have him next cab off the rank behind JGP and Casey just about but if Ben Murphy continue his form and goes well in Europe he'll pass him quickly you'd hope.

Lineout is a shambles, POC would want to sort it out sharpish. He turned it around once only for it to go to pot again, if it continues I'd agree he's had his shot.

Attack, I'll withhold judgment for a while but not a great start and the breakdown was poor… I thought our front 5 got comprehensively outplayed.

Still a few games to go so wait and see I guess. That's not a vintage ABs squad, very disappointing performance.

You're constantly saying Farrell is 'deeply unpopular' and such things. It's bizarre, I don't see it. I read on here most weeks (when I've the headspace!) and it doesn't strike me that there's a sizeable 'Farrell Out' group or similar.

People can question his decisions or selections but still be happy with him. I think he's done a fantastic job. There's a bit of a rebuild coming with the age profile of some stalwarts, it'll be interesting to see how he handles it, big test.

The biggest issues is players like Ben Murphy who no one really knew about until his 5 games at Connacht and now he is 4 choice for Ireland

Connacht had 1 ten while Leinster had 6 and none were moved on for development. Connacht ended up bringing a third choice kiwi over. That's not how you grow depth. Irfu need to move players around to the other work places.

that Ben murphy has huge potential and and there is nothing wrong with him in time going back to Leinster. Like henshaw did.
what’s max deegan at Leinster wasting his 20s being back up. He should have been at another province 5 years ago.

so many Leinster players like that, what could have been if they moved to a province where there was more chance of getting better opportunities.