Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Osbourne didn't make a single match day 23.

Not sure how anyone can say Farrell hasn't been conservative. I think everyone would agree that we have great back row depth. We have had 35 back row slots in the match day 23 across 8 games since the RWC, 3 games outside competitions, and we have only used 6 players. 1 of those 6 places (using 2 slots) was moving someone who started 5 of the other games at second row.

VDF and Doris have started every game in the 2022, 2023 and 2024 6 nations, every game in the World Cup bar Romania, every game against the All Blacks on the 2022 tour, every game against South Africa on the 2024 tour and have played 6 of the 7 November internationals in 2021, 2022 and 2024, the exception being Fiji. We have had the same two back rows start 29 of the last 31 competitive games we've played. No team in the world comes close to this sort of consistency/conservatism in selection, let alone in a position we claim to have huge strength in.

Singling out JVDF and Doris starting every game is bizarre. JVDF was World Player of the Year in 2022 (and our best player on Friday night), and Doris has been one of our very best players of the past few years and a probable World Player of the Year candidate this year.

You’ve listed out a load of games our coaches would see as “must win” games. Any coach picks their best players if available for those games.

Farrell may well be a conservative coach, he may even be a bad coach, but the non selection of Frisch is proof of neither of these things. The guy just isn’t good enough for Ireland.

I don’t have the stats in front of me, but when was the last time Antoine Dupont, Ardie Savea, Maro Itoje, Eben Etzebeth, Pieter Steph du Toit, etc didn’t start must win games for their respective countries?

Because they’re guys at a similar level of significance to their teams as JVDF and Doris are to us. They are both way ahead of any competition in their positions and are both more often than not amongst our best players. There is nothing controversial about their continued selection, it’s just noteworthy and fortunate they’ve been healthy for such a prolonged period.

Im talking about a combination which is very different to an individual. Playing the same 2 players 29 out of 31 times means you don't get to see how good other players could be. Connors, McCann and Hodnett are total unknown entities at the top level because they never get a chance. VDF will always be selected under Farrell through any dip in form and if Farrell once in a blue moon decides to rest him, he'll move one of the other perennially selected players like O'Mahony or Doris to 7 to cover. It's an extraordinarily conservative selection policy in a position we supposedly have huge strength in. You can see how Nienebar is wiling to experiment at 7, with only Connors really at his disposal, in big games but Farrell won't even pick another 7 in a training squad.

No its pointing out there hypocrisy in Farrell complaining about player populations in South Africa, England and France vs Ireland having not selecting players who then go on to get included in French and South African squads.

So you want the Irish coach to pick eligible journeymen to tie them down? Not sure that benefits either Irish rugby or the individuals although I guess it would make certain provinces stronger which is a separate argument.

Farrell complaining about player populations in South Africa, England and France vs Ireland

What did Farrell say? I missed this

The Emerging Ireland tours haven't been popular amongst some fans, but they've been fantastic in identifying what players can contribute to the Ireland senior squad immediately.

He was a World Cup 23 guy for them on a 7-1 bench when they’re missing a few other locks through injury. He wasn’t even picked in their squad for this November and got a call up when Ruan Nortje got injured. He’s a good player but stop making out he’s some massive game changer at international level.

I’ve already said here today on this thread I would have had him in wider Ireland squads at the time, but I completely understand if Farrell thinks he’s not a fit at all for the way we want to play.

The argument should be around Tom Ahern not getting opportunities atm. Not Kleyn