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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    While I think the "all the drama he's caused" part of this is just silly, it is pertinent that they brought Sexton in to consult and Crowley was very underwhelming and Frawley was dreadful. Possibly not coincidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,007 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And Cronin went to Biarritz then Leicester. ROG wanted Crowley. JJ Hanrahan went there to Clermont. I’m sure there’s more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,370 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    In reality it's coincidence.

    Re-watched the game. Our phase attack was badly off kilter. So many knock ons that we could never snap into our established attacking shape.

    On the flip side, I thought we had some very well worked strike moves off lineout that won us a lot of metres. It was when we were put to ground after and went back to phase play that we struggled again.

    We weren't as bad as I initially thought. Clean up the handling errors and I think we'll be fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Okay thanks.

    If Crowley had been brilliant and Frawley good I imagine Sexton's involvement would have been brought up earlier.

    I see no reason to conclude either it's a coincidence or it's not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,370 ✭✭✭✭Clegg




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,075 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    If Crowley and Frawley are so mentally weak that a couple of conversations with Sexton could make them play like that, then neither should ever play for their province, let alone Ireland, again.

    But nobody really thinks the two are remotely related.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭50HX


    He's gonna need to start all of the games so for leinster which is what 7-9 matches between here & 6n?

    Then be casted as the #1 meaning he starts all 6n games inc at home to eng& france.

    For all the faults of last night 10 wasn't the main one.

    They were 2 great 10's a few months ago & some supporters cutting Cullen for not playing Frawley at 10...now he's vindicated & frawley banshed to 12/15 again by some😁

    Couldn't make it up or keep up to it at times after a loss



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yea there is definite demand for irish non internationals.

    If i wanted to 'solve' this problem, which i'm not sure needs solving but still, i'd just introduce some mild market forces.

    1 provinces are allowed to bid more than the home team on a player if they offer him a bigger role. It needs to be clearly a bigger role as judged by the irfu.

    2 the home team is allowed to match that offer to keep him

    3 teams have a cap that includes private money, but not the 70% + of central contracts.

    4 this excludes academy but you can still offer them senior deals.

    That solves all the 'problems' imo. Players move and get paid to move if they are wanted enough. The home team can always decide to keep them but lose something elsewhere to do so. The guys they will probably decide to lose are the senior non internationals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Some of the comments on this board make me laugh. A few sensible observations IMHO:


    1 - Age is a factor, but heeping pressure on 21 year olds who are learning their trade and are also unproven is unhelpful. Prendergast & Gus for example. Both great but better to mature behind the hype as most of their contemporaries have the benefit of

    2 - This was game 1 in an Autumn series, it’s not a World Cup game and facing a well bonded All Blacks after a few days at Irish Camp without game time is not ideal


    3 - The Post Sexton era question needs time to evolve. Crowley is very talented and going through a tough time in confidence, it happens, Sexton was living proof of that, but came good in the end, give him and Frawley, another exceptional player, time to build themselves. Leinster need to back Frawley to allow him to back himself


    4 - Andy Farrell & their management team are world class give them time, some commentary is just so amateur and impatient.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,574 ✭✭✭fitz


    Yeah, that was my feeling last night. First game, crappy conditions, some of our players not in great form, couple of key players injured, and we still kept NZ tryless for most of the game, with most of their points coming from soft penalties we coughed up through indiscipline and inaccuracy…people are losing the run of themselves. It was a poor performance, but the handling errors really killed any momentum we had. Cut out those errors and we'd likely have won.

    Having said that, I think some ruthlessness in selection wouldn't go astray. I'm not sure Ryan's performance warranted his start. Would have preferred Beirne in the row, with Ryan off the bench, and I don't think Henderson has done enough to warrant being in the 23 at this stage.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So who are you getting rid of?

    I didn't ask for a list of players who had moved, I was asking who you are pushing out of Ireland



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I personally would not mandate this kind of thing, but i guess anyone 28/29 and older who the irfu decide is unlikely to play for ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Ross Moloney for all the moaning about him in ireland is a top quality players who has twice managed to get his club into a European final. He has a Grand Slam medal and in most countries would be a star player

    Leicester also want him. For some reason he is not rated by Ireland management but ROG etc have all said what an exceptional good player he is.

    The number of foreign players that French clubs have is reducing for JIFF etc, one of the reason that Zebo was let go accroding to reports



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    For a club like Leinster Ross Byrne isnt the answer but for a top half top 14 side he's perfect as he's very good at the basic but lack the athletes for top European side like Leinster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Thats a bit short sighted

    Why would the provinces dump players because the IRFU might decide not to play them?

    A change in coach or style with Ireland and suddenly the player you dumped is now required, or injuries etc.

    It's a ridculous proposal, the players are humans with families etc. If you are doing that to loads of players why would any of the other players show loyalty to ireland?

    We would be better trying to widen the base by linking in with clubs in ProD2 or in Australia or something, allowing young players to move over, play rugby and try to grow before having the option to move back

    If a player decides they want to move to France/England and are out of the picture at international level they can do tha already, like we have seen



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Plenty of 10's across the World at top sides and they don't have speed, which is Ross's biggest issue

    He has won a Grand Slam with ireland and didn't look out of place at international level.

    I was at the game last night and Ross would of managed the backline/Irish team a lot better than the players we had at 10 during the game. It was a mess.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ross Moloney would be a star player in most countries in a geographic sense as most countries don't play rugby seriously. That is an outrageous statement for tier one countries though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you followed the conversation, i never said it was a good idea. I just disagreed with the idea that only +20 cap players could find places abroad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I do find it hilarious

    You have people on boards and other social media constantly going on about testing players, doesn't matter if we lose games etc

    Ireland lose a game v NZ and the smae people are losing the plot

    If Farrell went out and lost a loads of games and done sh*t in the 6 natiosn, the same people would be asking for him to get sacked

    That is probably hte poorest I have seen Ireland play since 2020….not sure why…..but throwing the baby out with the water is not the answer



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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    its also the first game in a while. Odds on the next game is a big improvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    We need to look at a model for young players

    So is it an Ireland A series or more Emerging Ireland tours?

    Or do we see about getting the provinces more games via a mini League with currie cup teams in SA?

    Dumping senior players is not the answer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,060 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I think JGP played really well on Friday and made some excellent defensive tackles, but i think he kept the ball far too narrow and the reason why Crowley looked so anonymous, was because the 9, who is the main distributor in any game, didn't pass the ball to the 10 channel very often.

    I don't know how mucn of this was dictated by the coaches.

    Also, the drop by Crowley was a bad pass that was about 2 feet ahead of where he was

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,060 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The pass that Crowley dropped

    image.png

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    I can't think of a worse game for Ross than yesterday, pack on the back foot and aggressive opposition line speed. He would have been sitting in the pocket shovelling to the second receiver all night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Exactly, people say they wouldnt care if Ireland lose these sort of games yet you get all the GAA heads in here the 2nd they do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    In the words of Joe Schmidt ‘good players take those‘



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Possibly but the way we played a prime Carter or Sexton wouldnt have made a difference.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Thats not 2ft in front of him and he should have caught



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