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USA 2024 presidential election

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 978 ✭✭✭thegame983


    LatinX voters abandoned the Democrats.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,153 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    ”The Left” can barely agree on who’s left. Never mind unite behind one idea. We are shattered and splintered and spend more time fighting with each other than uniting against the right.

    If there’s one thing the right are great at it’s uniting behind someone they don’t actually have much in common to further their cause. We could learn from it, except most of us believe in doing what’s morally right.

    I hate when people talk about “the left” doing this or that. We can’t get together and agree on anything.

    My other point: there was no left and right in this election. There was right and more right. Just like every US election.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,153 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Not just them. People just didn’t come out and vote. I said this yesterday or the day before. Harris completely unperformed versus Biden, but Trump did the same and won.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,153 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    ”the bookies knew” - absolute horse shite.

    The punters knew and the bookies adjusted their odds based on money laid. Why is this such a difficult concept for people to understand.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What? It's a graph of price not inflation. The graph going down absolutely means it's getting cheaper.

    Regardless I'm not arguing there wasn't heavy inflation. I'm saying comparing it to Irish prices is not a meaningful way of expressing this and makes it seem significantly worse than reality due to fx shifts.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,079 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    According to exit polls foreign policy which would encompass the above was way down the priorities, at something like 4%.

    Far more put down abortion 14%, economy 31%, immigration 11% and "state of democracy" at 35%.

    While we can't trust exit poll answers 100%, someone might say 'economy' to mean immigration related issues, I can't see any reason to not mention foreign policy if that was important.
    And they are hardly likely to own up to not voting \ staying at home because of the gender or ethnicity of a candidate.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    All the naysayers denigrating Trump and his supporters really are so disconnected from reality. It was obvious to me for some time he was going to win and I said as much here (and it wasn’t popular and took plenty of heat)- he offered voters hope and a vision of how he’d improve their standards of living and safety….Harris said she would continue on as per joe Biden. When over 75% of people believe the country is on the wrong track this is an obvious losing message. Stevie wonder could see.
    This pre election analysis seems to be more about what some people “wanted” to believe rather than a rational immersion of reality



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    So many reasons but she was simply a terrible candidate, with a very poor track record, zero vision as to how she would improve people’s lives. Her communication style and connection with voters was sub par to say the least at this level. Trump and team ran a great campaign- they were everywhere and had a great message on the economy. All she did was focus on his flaws- not what SHE was doing. That’s ultimately what people care most about and it was baffling with all her teams money and supposed talent they couldn’t articulate this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    all her celebrity surrogates are absolute cringe and need to be dropped for all future campaigns. They really did more harm than good to her - it underscored her disconnect from the public



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭ebbsy




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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Given that most Latinos (including my Latina wife) think that LatinX is a really stupid thing, I don't know if the people who abandoned the Democrats were ever LatinX to begin with. From 2020.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/

    But it's OK. The Democrats will take care of your feelings whether you feel you need it or not and describe you as they wish.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/many-latinos-say-latinx-offends-or-bothers-them-here-s-ncna1285916

    Wife describes me as her gringo husband, though there has been a small movement to use gringX as a protest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,851 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It has a lot of similarities with Brexit. Trump will be the 2nd time in history a country voted to put economic sanctions on themselves. The first time, was brexit, the 2nd time, is electing a man who promised to put 60% Tariffs on everything from China, and 20% Tariffs on everything from everywhere else in the world

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,851 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its not 'the economy' it's wages, and Trump can get 'the economy' improving and the stock market could boom, but if wages are stagnant, below inflation, then the trump supporting white working class males will continue to suffer.

    Trump won't do anything to help working people.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,013 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The level of political and economic illiteracy and lack of basic critical thinking is profoundly appalling. The only reason there wasn't a recession in his first stint was the government flooding stimulus money into the economy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Appalling but not new or unexpected. Finding a way to campaign successfully knowing just how uninformed much of the electorate is seems to be something that populists (left or right) do quite well, in hindsight it looks like the democrats were outmanoeuvred by a (more) cynical yet effective Trump campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    I presume Britain and America are the only two countries you've ever heard of when you're talking about first and second time in history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    They’re already suffering so they weren’t going to continue with more of the same and expect a different outcome. That would be bizarrely illogical and the definition of insanity. Trump swept the boards with this voting cohort and many more besides- the real question was what were the CURRENT Democratic administration doing for working people? Besides taking down to them and calling them racists. The results speak for themselves



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,702 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Harris was asked 'Is there anything you would have done differently from Biden?' [or words to that effect]

    Her answer was 'I do not think so - no, I cannot think of anything.'

    That lost her the election because Biden was judged to be 'too old' and 'doddery' - just as Trump would be if challenged properly. She should have answered with 'Of course I would have done most things differently, but I was not POTUS, and as such, it was not my place to challenge the decision maker!' She could then have put her own policies and direction to her campaign.

    She came across as weak and clueless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    That was a rare moment of honesty from her tbh- she wouldn’t do anything differently as she was clueless and had no vision beyond tired and jaded Obama style hollow slogans and aspirations. The electorate in America has moved well beyond that aul guff and want brass tax



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    That's a fair point. No matter how left somebody is, it's never left enough.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Anyone could have won against the Democrats, the out up an exceptionally weak candidate and have been at war with key demographics for a long time now.

    The Republicans core vote is the next few years is broadly the working class, Hispanics. 2 groups that Democrats are very uncomfortable with.

    The Republcans will continue to have less white support overall but that will be dwarfed by big incresses from others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    You’d imagine if the voters are so dumb and ill informed then an effective Democratic Party would be able to deliver a “we know what’s good for you” economic message and an agenda to follow through on. They can’t because they don’t have one



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Agreed.

    There seems to be a belief that the Democrats are just too honourable or something. It all reminds me of Jeremy Corbyn's claim to have won the argument despite having (disastrously) lost the election.

    There are also a number of issues that haven't been examined yet. Indeed there seems to be some reluctance to consider some of them at all. Much easier to call the other side Nazis and dumbfks than to seriously consider that they might have actual reasons.

    'Kamala Harris is focused more on cultural issues like transgender issues rather than helping the middle class' (+17).This suggests that Harris was weighed down heavily by the Biden administration, particularly by inflation and their track record on immigration. Harris was also weighed down by voters’ belief that she focused on liberal cultural issues. In fact, this was the most frequent criticism among swing voters who broke for Trump (+28)."

    I've said before that the Democrats (and the left in most of Europe) have painted themselves into a corner over the transgender question.

    If they don't learn their lesson, things will get worse for them, not better. The claim that "Sure it's only a tiny number of people, only rightwing bigots could possibly object" when women are being raped (and/or having their sentences prolonged for daring to object) in "women's" prisons in America, may have worked initially when most people had no knowledge of the subject and just couldn't believe the authorities would be so callous, but that is changing as more and more incidents copme to light - and it is not going down well with ordinary people. Same with women and girls being punished for daring to query males playing in female sports.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,153 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’m unsubscribing, thanks for the last year or so. I’ll see you all later.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭rock22


    Because of the generally unreliable nature of exit polls, we will never know for certain why Harris did so badly. It is clear she did not get out the vote that Biden did in 2020. Some of that might be down to policy issues but some if it is just plain misogyny . Perhaps some was also racist.

    Religion seems to have also played a part in it will almost all Christian denominations, including catholic, tending towards Trump in higher numbers than Harris. I assume because of her view on abortion.

    And of course the cost of living. And if the macro-economic data shows a healthy economy then there is surely a problem of wealth distribution, because many see the rich getting richer and themselves getting poorer. Of course theirs is a narrow perspective, but it is on that perspective that they are turning out to vote.

    It is also worth noting that the Republicans are doing much better in the House and Senates elections too , whatever that might tell us about the motivations of the electorate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,851 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I agree, but the american discourse is so fucked up that she would have lost some votes for being seen as 'stabbing joe in the back'

    Harris lost because she was nowhere near progressive enough, but if she was progressive enough, the DNC would never have allowed her to be the candidate. And they're not learning anything from this. Its infuriating

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    She lost because she was a hollow husk of a candidate with no message or vision as to how she’d improve people’s lives.
    Nothing to do with misogyny and if it was “racism” then why was a black man (Obama) elected- twice?
    As for “not progressive enough” I think you must be on another planet- that’s partly why she didn’t get elected and the likes of Warren or Saunders would never get elected. America is a conservative country where people care about working hard and striving for the American dream. The democrats either adapt to reality or accept they’re going to be out of power for a long time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 139 ✭✭doyle55


    Very hard to argue with perception but US food price inflation was the lowest of the G7.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    might be true on paper but it’s definitely not people’s feeling or indeed experience when they go to buy anything. Telling people the economy is in great shape when they’re just about getting by is a losing message from the start.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,616 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Yes, why should we use actual facts when we can talk about feelings instead when having a discussion… Brexit debate all over again…



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