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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That is my point. SF won't put anything realistic into their election manifesto because they know a united Ireland is not a serious proposition. We will get some aspirational rhetoric, some exclusionary talking shops, but no concrete realistic plans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Would public sector trade unions accept a "gradually phased transition period over a number of years"? Not a chance.

    Would social welfare recipients accept one? Not a chance either.

    Will people be willing to pay extra tax for a "gradually phased transition period over a number of years"? Nope, not happening.

    The naivety of some of the posting on a united Ireland is mind-boggling as it demonstrates how far we have to go to get some serious debate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have about as much interest in a SF plan as I have in a FG one.

    I have been telling you that SF have been studiously living up to the tenets and spirit of the GFA which they helped negotiate and signed up to. They won't IMO pre-empt the democratic process this all must be to avoid the mistakes of the past.

    All you guys can do is taunt and invent conspiracies about an 'exclusionary republican blueprint' in a drawer somewhere.

    You need to be adult about any discussions on a UI and you and others here show a huge willingness to be drawn into jibes and taunts. They'll be ignored and are being ignored as the conversation continues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If SF don't begin the process of governmental planning in government they will lose a huge amount of their base, here and in the north. Simple as that, so it is up to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Being adult about a GFA conversation requires one to acknowledge that a United Ireland is unlikely to ever happen. That is the starting point. The GFA was all about getting thugs to stop killing while giving them an aspirational hope.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Some people, those of a partitionist mentality in particular, had their fingers crossed behind their backs when signing up to and voting for the GFA. That is beyond doubt.
    But they won't get to set the agenda, also without doubt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If there was a plan out there for a united Ireland, you would have a point.

    There isn't, not even a sign of one, with even SF running away from producing one, so that tends to support my position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    On a party's plan or lack thereof for a United Ireland - I wouldn't expect any party to have a plan. It's not something that any individual party should be able to dictate.

    But what I would expect is to see the plan to get the plan. So for example it might be to have a series of citizen's assemblies. Or a projected timeline for how soon after a possible successful border poll would unity be looked at. Should there be a ministry for this in advance, or only after a vote? Who would the key decision makers be? Should a bunch of things be put to the public for votes on areas such as the flag, anthem, etc - or should this be restricted to the Dáil/Stormont?

    So I wouldn't want to see a plan for unity. But a plan to get to a plan would be good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The attempt to taunt again.

    The FF FG nexus had 100 years to begin something concrete, they didn't. Now we have the former leader of FG saying the next government should begin the process and has said he planned to begin the process - obviously responding to the growing conversation around the issue. He is many things but is no fool when it comes to making political capital and being on the right side of history.

    If you are looking for 'signs', actually look maybe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes I agree on this.
    I think SF's plan, if in government, is to begin with a CA and let that dictate the key areas to be considered.
    I would expect Varadkar's idea of a 'forum' along the lines of the New Ireland Forum to be considered too for party political views to be thrashed out and discussed. All of this conducted under the remit of a Ministry for Unification.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭pureza


    has anyone on this thread any actual interest in SF at all ?

    Yesterday they put out a health document

    Instead you want to tat tit the same tat titting crap you lot have been doing in repetition for the last ten years or more?

    Do you not get bored swapping the exact same lines to one another on a UI ? Over and over again in various threads for the last decade ?

    What’s the end game there ? Brain death ?

    Oh and @franciebrady ,if you tell me again to go away if I’m not interested,you’ll just be proving my point (again) so don’t bother please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sinn Fein had 37 TDs elected last time out. What are their realistic aims this time?

    They are almost certain to lose seats in some areas - Clare, Laois and Kildare South being obvious ones - but how will the decimation of the vote in Dublin and the faded profile of TDs in places like Wexford affect the outcome?

    Is it realistic for them to expect to hold their own, or, given the current polls, how big a fall can be expected. My own estimate is that they could lose up to 17, but that some of these are likely to hold on. The following look vulnerable to me:

    Carlow/Kilkenny (running 2 candidates could split the vote)

    Cavan/Monaghan (second seat at risk from fall in vote)

    Clare (Violet Anne-Wynne)

    Cork North-Central (addition of Mallow could give Labour the seat)

    Dublin Bay North (collapse in Dublin vote)

    Dublin Bay South (collapse in Dublin vote, but added complication of Bacik)

    Dublin Fingal West (assume LOR runs here, there isn't enough votes in Dublin for a 3-seater for her)

    Dublin Mid-West (collapse in Dublin vote, second seat at risk)

    Dublin North-West (will the Rock see off Dessie?)

    Galway West (if Independents poll strongly, this seat is also at risk, as the FF and FG increases come into play)

    Kerry (one where the FG increase sees them take a seat, while the strong polling protects the Independents)

    Kildare South (with the announcement from the Ceann Comhairle that he is coming back, this seat is gone)

    Laois (Stanley)

    Louth (lose the second seat)

    Meath West (can't see both Aontu and SF taking seats this time around, so Tobin to hold on)

    Tipperary (not sure where Martin Browne is running, but the split in the constituency could hurt him)

    Wexford (constituency loses a seat and Wallace could be running)

    As well as those 17, there were a number of constituencies (Kildare North, Dublin West) where I had SF keeping a seat because of increased seat numbers countering the vote drop. As I said already, they shouldn't lose all of these, but if the local election result was repeated, all would be gone, plus a few more.

    Will be interesting to watch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why don't you talk about the health document? If that's what you want to do.

    These forums can cope with several themes.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    I’d have to think that secretly, a lot in SF don’t want an imminent UI themselves. What becomes of the party post unification? It’s a bit like Cinderella really. Party hopes to end up with a UI Prince Charming but all the other parties are like the ugly step sister who are trying to usurp that and get Prince Charming for themselves. In the end though all this falls away, Cinders gets her Prince. The EU and US all show up to the wedding. Everyone agrees it’s brilliant and the EUand US fairy godmothers are generous with the gifts but they can’t give them indefinitely. One morning Cinders wakes up, realises there are bills to pay. Prince Charming is high maintenance. There’s a lot of kids now who need support. Some of the kids aren’t getting along well and need even more help. All the other day to day regular work has to be done as well. Things seem much better when all Cinders had to do was publish a few policies and shout across the floor of the Dail. That’s why SF should look to building depth in their ranks so they have a future themselves after a UI.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    You've no idea on the answers to any of those questions and until a party in government poses them none of us do. And again, this just highlights how impossible it is to have a rational conservation on a UI as long as a party that has very little interest in a UI is in government.

    FG idea of "serious debate" is "a UI is an aspirstional notion, so let's just leave it at that." The naivety of some to think that's going to produce solutions to the many many issues that come with a potential UI is comical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have posted on the health document, I have posted on SF's electoral prospects, but you are right, all they want to talk about is a united Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭pureza


    I’m not the one advocating a SF government

    That’d be you and your colleague’s,which is why I’m puzzled at the constant repetitive off topic ramblings about a niche topic amongst the electorate in a thread not about that or anything near it

    The thread is remember about how on earth SF can persuade enough other T.D’s to join in or invite them into government

    Yet what you guys constantly turn it into (to quote a poster over on CA) is an almost scholarly discussion on a UI

    I mean,what the actual fook ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,048 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Last time SF got a huge boost from the televised leaders debates which made the FFG leaders look complete amateurs. What happens in the upcoming election will very much be based on what happens in the TV debates in the run up to the next election.

    If MLMD can once again make the FFG leaders look completely incompetent the electorate will respond once again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Health plan 😂

    Similar to the housing plan.

    It's another "lets wave loads of cash around with nothing to back it up" plan's
    Free everything for everyone

    More billions for the HSE

    Can we fix it? Yes we can

    They should have Bob on the front of it

    5.4billion on the medical card alone.

    Does anyone fall for this type of stuff?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Cork North Central is gaining a seat, so SF are locked in to getting 1 seat there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    That SF Health/Pie in the Sky stuff was well dissected in one of the media outlets yesterday (can't remember which one, sorry). In essence it's 120 pages of aspirational guff with little or no details about how many waves of Pearse's magic wand would be required ro make it happen. Anyway, I had understood that every political party had signesd up to Sláintecare, so what's Cuilinane doing publishing his own plan? I assume that it's a smokescreen intended to make Brian Stanley disappear. (And the free drugs for all part has my pusher very worried.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    How can somebody who has shown themselves to be incompetent in the last few weeks now make others seem incompetent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That's more giving out.

    I thought you wanted to post on the health topic?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How's your 'heads will roll by….' theory going?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You won't get reasoned reactions to any parties plans from competing political parties. Best look at reaction from those at the coalface. Here are a few so far.


    We welcome the very considered priorities for change in health and social care that have been put together by Sinn Féin. 

    HRCI response to Sinn Féin Priorities for Change in Health & Social Care, 2023 -

    IASW welcomes the clear statement from Sinn Féin that healthcare is a human right. Social care is also human right.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj1sZ-mtLaJAxV8VUEAHff2HLE4ChAWegQIFRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iasw.ie%2Fdownload%2F1224%2FIASW%2520Paper%2520for%2520SF%2520150224.pdf&usg=AOvVaw230t6sdayRIwTAt9UQMHTT&opi=89978449



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And your constant predictions of doom have been completely wrong. Ever wonder that your view might also be? SF lost 1 point in the polls after that. IMO because ultimately anyone without jaundiced eye can see that they did the right thing in all cases, got rid of those who were found to have committed wrongdoing. They didn't circle the wagons as we have seen some do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Its bulls**t of the highest order. Going to magic up loads of nurses/doctors/GP's which seemingly they think are dotted around Ireland just waiting for SF to get into government

    Thats before we look into the rest of the ramble

    They also, from what I seen, made no comment yet on the "tax the rich" from Pearse which would hit and entry level consultant, the same one they have said they are going to hire but give less wages to compared to the current optiosn from the HSE.

    SF supporters dont want to discuss it as well can see here, instead talk gibberish becuase they know its a shambles.

    The party falls from one incompetent mess to another



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is clear from your post that SF are still fighting the last election, not the next one. The Republican card played well in 2020, that vote is gone to the hard right. That was a big factor now gone.

    Waiting for the result of the American election to see how TV debates affect elections in 2024. Two big ifs in your post, first that a TV debate will affect the outcome, and second, that MLMD will win the TV debate. She is way open to attack this time, whereas last time out she was an unknown in leader debates. How can you lead a government when you cannot lead your own party opens up Stanley, McGonagle etc.

    If SF are betting on the TV debates, good luck to them.

    Nothing on any of my constituency predictions then? Too detailed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yeah, Cork North-Central is the most marginal of the ones I picked. Thought about Kildare North instead, Reada Cronin's vote could collapse, also some of the places they are running second candidates (though you can't be sure of that until nominations close).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have looked at this on a constituency level (see above) and have outlined where I think SF could lose seats, up to 20 if the local elections vote is accurate, but around 13-15 at current levels of support. They have a long list of vulnerable seats at 17%.



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