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Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Remarkable looking at it & comparing it to all the other race rally speeches, the audience falling silent for a sustained period.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's delusional to think that any worldwide betting market that large can be manipulated. On the betfair exchange alone 127 million has been matched on the win market. If Kamala's odds are way off and good value, smart peoplea would recognise this. They would grab that value and the odds would correct themselves.

    Right now the implied probability is 61% Trump and 39% Harris to win.

    That doesn't mean Trump is a shoe-in of course but on average that is the probability we have right now based on what a massive worldwide sample of people think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,295 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Strong words from Michelle- I think it’s much better that she says these things than if Harris does - Harris just needs to keep honing her message and keep as visible as possible up to polling day .
    I haven’t seen much commentary though of the fact that it’s somewhat likely that JD Vance could become president within the next 4 years - not wishing another human being ill or death but it’s simply a very significant statistical possibility - it’s hasn’t been said much by Democrats as far as I can see - maybe a mention over the coming few weeks might scare off a few undecided

    "I hope you'll forgive me if I'm a little angry that we are indifferent to his erratic behaviour, his obvious mental decline, his history as a convicted felon," she said.


    "A known slumlord, a predator found liable for sexual abuse, all this while we pick apart Kamala's answers in interviews he doesn't even have the courage to do.

    "So, I am praying that those of us contemplating voting for Trump or not voting at all will snap out of whatever fog they are in.
    https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-showing-obvious-mental-decline-michelle-obama-warns-13242185



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,666 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Another round of national polling emerging this morning and it's pretty dire for the Harris campaign. CNN poll has Trump and Harris tied at 47%.

    Harris campaign would like for her to be a few percent ahead given the polls consistently under represent Trump. He's pulling ahead in the battleground State polling too.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/25/politics/cnn-poll-harris-trump/index.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Dingaan


    According to the official link below, there is currently an 11 percent difference between White and Black turnout in early voting. Typically, the turnout advantage is around 7-8 percent. Why does this matter? If Democrats don’t significantly boost numbers in Cobb and DeKalb counties, they have no chance of winning the state.

    Today is the last 'Souls to the Polls' day, so we could see the gap close. However, if there’s no bump over the next few days, it looks likely that Trump will carry the state based on the numbers.

    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,295 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I reckon the analysis will start around “where did it all go wrong” way before polling day at this stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    Jesus he's still flapping his gums about crowd sizes, lying about celebrities endorsing Harris, someone put him on a home ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    Why? All that matters is the swing states and Harris is winning against Trump imo, I actually think Trumps team can see this, they will probably start rambling about cheating over next week.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think because of the notion that Trump is doing well, we're not hearing so much of the stolen election crap right now. They don't think that stuff will be helpful if they think they can win legitimately.

    The second things start looking bad though, they will start claiming to see all of the clues that the dems are stealing it.

    I think that the Trump supporters still hanging around the thread should declare now whether or not the election is going to be stolen. Will make it a bit more honest when they might feel the need to back track.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    African American turnout down and Trump getting a big boost in their support, it's a duel problem for Harris.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    In Trump's worldview, any loss he endures is unfair by definition. At least this is his public stance.

    Trump did admit to writer Bob Woodward that he knew Covid was a big problem but that he didn't want to cause a panic. This suggests to me, somewhat, that Trump isn't so delusional as to believe all of his own bullshtt, but he is amoral enough to push it to his followers regardless.

    So, if Trump does lose, we can fully expect him to pivot onto the stolen narrative without compunction. He wouldn't even need to build to it because he's spent a good four years really embedding this notion in the MAGA psyche.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭BQQ


    it’s reminiscent of 2016, when Trump was written off, but you could see huge crowds at his rallies that didn’t line up with the perceived wisdom


    now it’s flipped. Trump is the favourite in the polls and the odds, but his rallies are small and low energy, while Harris is filling 30k football stadiums in red states

    Impossible to call



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It doesn't look like she is doing well enough in the swing states though.

    It's small margins but they are nearly all against her now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    In addition to stats on early voting, it would be interesting to compare the candidates' rally attendances in terms of hard numbers, because it's very easy to cherry pick different photographs of respective rallies and paint any kind of picture one wants or give anecdotes of rally-goers walking out and so forth. Actually counting voters at rallies would be far more concrete. Do rally venues typically do that? Some of them it looks like you can more or less show up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    I don't see how rally numbers would tell us anything.

    Trump's rallys are restricted due to the security issues.

    Having a genuine star like Beyonce at a rally is of course going to pull in the numbers but it probably doesn't tell us much about how popular Harris is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    There was 4 separate bets of $30 million put on a Trump win. Do you think that would have no affect on the market?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,295 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    If you look at any mainstream news outlet they’re not so confident - certainly any I’ve been looking at today -and the swing states in particular are concerning for Harris - she’s no getting the ethnic minority vote in the numbers that have supported Democrats in recent times - possibly the current Israel Gaza war is impacting this possibly something else like religious conservatism but definitely she’s in trouble



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,655 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I also think it is reminiscent of 2016.

    Back then Clinton was a bit of a marmite candidate. Plenty of support from a strong base but beyond that engendered significant ill will, leading to sufficient abstentions and votes against her.

    Trump, although high profile from TV etc and also a marmite candidate, politically had not yet generated the kind of ill will he does today.

    Essentially Clinton lost that election rather than Trump winning it. She lost a referendum on her character.

    Now Trump still has his strong base, but he has built up very significant hatred beyond that.

    Harris on the other hand, whilst obviously high profile being VP, has not yet done enough to engender a huge negative feeling. She'll benefit from the votes against Trump and the abstentions.

    It will be a referendum on Trump's character and he'll lose it. I think Harris will win with a greater electoral college margin of victory than Biden did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,422 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It doesnt look like Trump is even filling the smaller venues he is booking.

    And look at how attendees at the Trump Coachella event were abandoned by Trump campaign with no transport.

    I think the rallies do play a role in making a connection to the candidate. Beyonce might get them in the door but then it is about turning a likely Harris voter into a definite.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,615 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    2020 was a perfect storm for the Democrats.

    Covid and BLM were the 2 factors that helped them win the election.

    Trump lost alot of older voters due to his handling of Covid and it allowed far more postal voting and a higher turnout. The BLM "peaceful protests" did alot of damage to Trumps vote.

    This time round Trump is polling much better with Black men and Latinos. I think alot of the older voters that deserted him in 2020 will return now that Covid is no longer an issue.

    The whole BLM thing has been exposed for the grift it was.

    The turnout is not looking as high.

    Harris is not convincing voters that she has what it takes to be President.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    They probably wouldn't, but people are saying that poll numbers don't tell us anything…. Early voting stats don't tell us anything…. Hey, if those statistics are meaningless, I'm open to comparing rally numbers as well.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Weird to describe Black Lives Matter as a grift that's been exposed.

    Sounds a lot more like conspiracy nonsense like the Deep State. More dog whistling that you will not defend or elaborate on because it will be too much effort to copy and paste from twitter again.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Kinda my point, any other high ranking politician suggested that and they'd be laughed out the door. No one even flinches when Trump says it. Not sure if it's because they know he doesn't understand what he is on about and won't actually be able to enact such things or, more terrifyingly they don't understand and hope he does. Probably a mixture of both.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    That's my take as well. It's impossible to call.

    I am taking some solace in the fact that leading in to the mid-terms in 2022, the polls indicated a Red Wave and that didn't come close to happening, and in fact, candidates advocating Trump type messaging got beaten by and large.

    I do hope that that is the case this time round, but you know what, I'm actually going to be less frustrated if Trump wins this time than I would have been in 2020 had he won then. Don't get me wrong, I will be very frustrated, but him winning, after everything that he has categorically demonstrated as to his intent, motivations and capability will have much less to do with what the Democrats should have done than what the Republican electorate were willing to accept. Of course, Harris could end up losing a lot of Muslim voters which could influence things in some places, but the alternative for the the Dems there is if Biden had cut off support for Israel and if he had done that, Harris would likely lose much more center leaning democrats and any chance of center leaning Republicans so that conflict there is a poison she has to take one way or another.

    Trump has shown categorically who he is, what he is, and what he is capable of and incapable of. He has shown us, not the media, not a celebrity, no one, he has spent his life focused on TV ratings, this is the outcome of that. If kids in kindergarten are eating the paint, it's the fault of the teacher, if the kids in high school are doing it, it's not the teachers fault.

    Trump supporters won't give a sh*t about any of this, but I won't lose time thinking the non-Trumpers should have done more or done things differently, this is on those who choose him.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A considerable number of those older voters died because they followed Trumps covid advise. Not an insignificant percentage who are no longer around to vote.

    Darwin's law of evolution in practice.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    There was a crowd in Merrion Square who used to do this on big events. If it's market manipulation it will be for two reasons. The first, an accepted loss because they believe the betting markets favouring Trump ties into the American back the winner mentality and brings support with it, this implies they will gain elsewhere if Trump gets in, this is very risky The other is to manipulate odds, this will be obvious in the next fortnight by the laying on of huge money on Kamala by the same people. Hard to know, but there are very few people who gamble that much without a plan, although nothing is impossible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    @Tell me how

    Of course, Harris could end up losing a lot of Muslim voters which could influence things in some places, but the alternative for the the Dems there is if Biden had cut off support for Israel and if he had done that, Harris would likely lose much more center leaning democrats and any chance of center leaning Republicans so that conflict there is a poison she has to take one way or another.

    The problem for the Harris campaign is that the voter coalition it has is fundamentally divided on what to do regarding Israel/Hamas/Hezbollah. There is no solution they can propose which will please all of its potential voters. That's the realpolitik of the situation.

    Trump doesn't really have this problem with Israel. Most of his voters would have no problem seeing Gaza be entirely levelled and turned into a resort frequented by Chinese and Saudi businessmen in want of a luxury Mediterranean holiday, should Hamas not be prepared to surrender without condition. We can remember quite well that one big Trump policy in 2016 was to ban people entering the US from several Muslim countries with the suspicion being that anyone from these places could be a potential radical terrorist. This mindset still pervades but is currently expressed with a more general anti-immigrant feeling, with suicide belts being replaced with bricks of fentanyl shoved up the rear of some desperate mother from El Salvador.



  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    "Donald Trump showing 'obvious mental decline', Michelle Obama".

    How can she have credibility saying this, in all fairness, having said nothing about Biden over the last few months, in a situation where, surely, most would have to agree, there was decline without question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Exactly.

    And that's what will annoy me most if Trump wins, what it will say about what most of America wants in its leaders. The world needs genuine collaborators and leaders who can work with other leaders 'for the common good'. Not this self-absorbed clown who hasn't a clue about anything other than doing what he wants.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,295 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    It’s the checks and balances within the established institutions of government is what people will have to rely on to ensure he doesn’t make a complete mess of things. I don’t think he’s stupid enough nor is America set up in a manner that 3rd world war can be started by a rogue president- but I’d also prefer if that theory wasn’t tested too often .



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