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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We don't need to look at other parties, we just need to look at SF.

    We have a person who was inappropriately texting a child. He gets a great send-off from MLMD, giving him a glowing reference in a statement. Nearly a year later, she is giving him hearts on social media. The man holds a position in a GAA club giving him access to children and Sinn Fein say nothing. This is treated as not a serious subject, the man isn't expelled from Sinn Fein, nothing happens to him, he isn't reported to the Gardai.

    Two adults consensually share a room, with no physical contact. The woman later tries to extort 90k from the man. When this fails, she makes a complaint to Sinn Fein. MLMD says that the complaint is of a serious nature and a finding of gross misconduct is made against the man, MLMD names him and says that it is a serious situation.

    Contrast the two. The man who was involved with children gets protected, the man in a consensual adult relationship gets outed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    Huh? The 1998 poll shows a 25% support a United Ireland so obviously there lots of other polls since then that show a higher % in support. Even for you, I didn't think that needed to be simplified.

    Again, you can't grasp what I'm saying so ill try simplify it yet again. Unionist can be convinced, but it will take a long time and won't suddenly happen over night. These are the things that need to happen

    1. Realise Northern Irelands future doesn't involved being under Britain's rule

    2. Realising a seperate Northern Ireland State is not realistically or achievable.

    3. (Not in a chronological order but will play a part in it) Unionist growing old and dying and younger generations having a different attitude to Unionism.

    I'm not making up stuff about people who lived through the troubles. Harris, McEntee et all never lived through the majority of the troubles and weren't even live for Bloody Sunday. Harris is a prime example of a poorly educated child from the South with a faux liberal schtick. The people who lived through the worst of the troubles lived in the North. The places were SF are the most popular party. They don't need a load of southerns who had it easy telling them they are supprt murders by voting for SF all while those same southerns are happy to open their arms to Loyalists and the British Crown. You're obviously too young to realise that though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    I've only heard of FF and FG still constantly reference SF and the IRA so yeah, it's fairly likely it's some FG supporters when I see it happen. I've not heard Holly Cairns ever state that "Sinn fein is full of murders", "Sinn Fein supporters murder and terrorism" feel free to provide quotes though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Still waiting for an answer to my question: what do other parties do on receipt of a complaint?
    Dont want to mention other parties? Ok, what should SF have done?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    Aside from the kangaroo courts, supporting murderers, cover ups etc?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,361 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    That's some superiority complex you have to go along with the giant chip on your shoulder



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,567 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Something I somehow missed during some of the early stages of the whataboutery and defence of SFs "investigation" where people compared it to a HR investigation

    Stanley was not an SF employee. His HR department was, and is, the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, not SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,513 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    If ever Brian Cranston isn't available for a part....ready made replacement

    Screenshot_20241026_195852_Opera.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    Its bizarre the casual acceptance they have towards the grooming of children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,077 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I don't know what other parties do. But if I was in charge of a party and a complaint came in I'd aim to have a truly independent investigation (ie not party members, even if they are barristers).

    If the underlying issue is a "personal falling" then ultimately do nothing - whether somebody is having an affair or not is a private issue.

    If the underlying issue is worse than this (ie criminal), refer to the gardai as quickly as possible and be open about it (eg a complain has been made against deputy x, it has been referred to the gardai and we will not be commenting further).

    If the issue is clearly one that you have no standing to refer to the gardai, then don't. It just makes it look like you're trying to have it so that your politicians can't speak openly about the issue to cover their own behinds.

    As soon as Stanley left the party, there was no reason why the internal report findings to that point couldn't be released, in a redacted fashion if needed.

    And I'd move quicker than they did. And I'd also be transparent about the timing of the complaint coming so long after the event but right around nominating time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'm genuinely not aware of an organisation or political party that holds internal discipline inquiry in the way you describe. But I agree, ideally that would be the way to go.

    As to the Gardai, if it was a physical threat, yes report immediately but as it was an 'accusation of a texted extortion attempt' I can see why the complainant was given an opportunity to refute.
    I am mindful we only have Stanley's version here and it is not usual for anyone in that position to portray themselves in a bad light.

    The precedent BTW )See Maria Bailey) is to keep reports private if that's what is decided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Back in the day it would be known as a donation for the cause.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I supppose in Monaghan you would just drive home after those few drinks?

    Like the other poster suggested, I would make sure I had an alternative way home if I was having a few drinks. Can't believe you were trivialising that. The lengths that you will go to to defend Sinn Fein are incredible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    That's becuase you've also missed the concepts of natural justice and fair procedures.

    These rights are enshrined by the Irish Constitution, and it extends to political parties, sports clubs, private proffesional bodies, colleges and arguably most organisations that would recieve any type of state funding.



  • Posts: 7,681 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't be surprised at his fervour. At one stage it got him a lengthy holiday from boards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,567 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Not a single word of what you've written there is relevant to my point.

    This is common with your screeds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    What was your point? Why haven't the Houses of Oireachtas Commission investigated him?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Madeoface


    Seriously mods. This topic has to be closed. Form a new Government? FFS.

    Better off opening a new one on 'SF and how they can stop imploding before a new Government dilemma'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,567 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    SF decided to act like his HR department. They weren't.

    That was my point. Your distractionary nonsense didn't even vaguely challenge that, but that's all we can expect from you and your ilk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    If a married man sharing a hotel room with a woman who isn’t his wife is deemed gross misconduct by SF, then there’s one of their front bench who must be feeling very nervous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    Organisations have rules. Members must abide by those rules. If a member is accused of breaking those rules an investigation is carried out to determine the outcome.The person who has been accused has certain legal entitlements and this investigation must be carried out in a certain way.

    How is this so difficult for you to grasp?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,567 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Again, not a single word of your defensive screed deals with my post at all.

    Try post your own opinion maybe.

    SF were never Stanleys HR. I don't think you, or whoever controls your comments, understands that concept. I'm not going to explain it further. Ask someone else, you clearly know who can explain this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    Like I really can't dumb it down any more for you.

    Why would I ask someone else? Most people understand this very basic concept. Organisations have rules, if memebrs breaks thoae rules they open themselves to disciplinary process. It's the excact same for members of rugby clubs, golf clubs, trade unions, professional bodies etc.

    SF don't need to be BS HR. The same as FG don't need to be Punam Rane HR.

    Simon Harris said a disciplinary process into the matter should be “swift and robust” as he described the statement by his party colleague as “absolutely offensive”.

    Like FG have done, they can carry out a disciplinary process and don't need to tell anyone else about it, what it involves or who's on the panel. They can run their own "kangaroo" court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,480 ✭✭✭pureza


    A complaint of the nature of this ladies? I only know what you know…

    But I’d imagine they refer privately to the RCC and things proceed from there if necessary,but a long internal inquiry in those matters,,I doubt it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,567 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I don't have any interest in FG. I don't vote for them, I won't vote for them as long as they support von der Leyen

    Why is your only deflection based on thinking that only FG voters oppose SF party lines?

    The vast, vast majority of people in Ireland are opposed to SF and its internal structures.

    88% of people voted for other entities in June. I suspect it'll be over 90% in late November. SF represent niche interests; niche interests repulsive to the majority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    He had the text, it was trying to bribe BS. Why would you give an oppotunity to refute?

    The lenghts you jump around to defend SF is incredible.

    The person sent a text demanding money and the locations to get the money dropped off. Nothing to refute. Any normal party would go straight away to the Garda about the issue. Not conduct some kangaroo court

    What the f**k does Maria Bailey have to do with anythign? pathetic



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    An internal report on the inquiry into Maria Bailey was kept private by FG. Leo Varadkar saying:

    “I intend to respond to it next week. In terms of publishing the report you know it’s not normal for a political party, or a media organisation or an employer to publish an internal report.

    That's the relevance/precedent. Different standards demanded of other parties. *bolding mine

    *I could say you sent me 3 texts this morning looking for money. You can say you didn't. The third party investigating would have to have proof that the texts came from my phone which is not a competence of a political party, hence why when Stanley walked it was given to the Gardai to assess.



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