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Dispute with mod

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Comments

  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    There shouldn't be reportable posts in a Helpdesk thread. The fact that there are so many reported posts in this thread is a miserable display of what some people treat this forum as.

    If it was a genuine Helpdesk thread, with genuine comment from users there would be absolutely no reported posts. None.

    But what started out as a genuine thread very quickly descended into yet another thread for taking digs at moderators, other users, other forums, squabbles from other forums spilled into here.

    People think the moderators should address the topic at hand and ignore the rest. Others think moderators should deal with the problem posters and then address the topic at hand.

    Whatever way you look at it it involves wading through pages and pages of noise that shouldn't be here to begin with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,375 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Ok, thanks for clarifying, I thought you meant that but wasn't sure.

    If this thread is not waded through, if the most egregious posts are not dealt with... is the same scenario likely to play out again? To get Feedback\Help Desk (I'm never totally clear on the different remits) to where it should be, no reportable posts, genuine comments only.

    Something to consider though likely it may have crossed your mind already.

    ps Shouldn't need to be but perhaps this 'laying down the law' mod instruction for example in Feedback, could be copied to Helpdesk also, so people should not be surprised if the law is laid down.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Is it possible to set it up so that posts have to be approved before appearing in thread? even if it was a rule that every post would be approved but it could take a few hours, it would slow the thread down and cut down on a lot of the off topic stuff



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's incredibly impractical. It'd require vast amounts of mod time for no real benefit. People would just moan that their posts aren't getting approved quickly enough or that they're not getting approved because of bias or whatever.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,375 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Interesting idea, for helpdesk, feedback, DRP.

    Might help with the spam too!

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell


    That was ands still is my main complaint: we're suppose to engage with the mod as the first step, so if a mod takes any action then they should also reply to PMs disputing the action, even if it is some sort of generic reply like "I stand by my decision take it to the DR forum if you want". That's simply just fair and common courtesy and it doesn't really waste any time. Respect goes both ways.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Theres no way many of the posts on this thread would ever have been approved. And then you'd have the discontented elsewhere saying mods are not approving their posts because power trip, bias, [insert reason here]

    If this thread is not waded through, if the most egregious posts are not dealt with... is the same scenario likely to play out again? To get Feedback\Help Desk (I'm never totally clear on the different remits) to where it should be, no reportable posts, genuine comments only.

    I'm never sure myself 😉

    I did suggest in an earlier post that I take an hour this evening and consistently applying warnings throughout the thread to all offtopic, uncivil, personal abuse posts. It would mean without question a number of people would build up to temporary sitebans of varying lengths.

    I don't think it's necessary. I'd rather not. I'd rather adults would simply know that whinging and ranting and taking shots at other users because of opinions in other forums is not relevant in here. That if you want to resolve a dispute or make a complaint or request clarification there are ways of doing it. Posters regularly complain of moderator power trips. I have yet to see any moderator here being rude or insulting or get personal with any poster. Yet posters feels entitled to insult and be rude about moderators, and get very offended and cry "circling of wagons" if pulled up on it.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Yes they should. But sometimes a PM can get lost or forgotten in the many PMs that come in. Every warning a mod applies creates a PM so it is very easy for a PM to slip down the list and be forgotten. In the past 24 hours I have 22 PM threads for example. That doesn't count multiple PMs in each thread.

    I am in work during the day. I'm out in the evenings. I'm going between places. It is very easy to miss a reply in there. I'm usually browsing on my phone. Might read a PM but not be able to reply at that moment, and then it slips down the list with more PMs coming in. It can easily happen.

    You have to PM the moderator as a first step. Often times this avoids DRP altogether as an agreement is reached. (I suggest when you first contact the mod you do so without name calling or ranting!). If you don't hear back after a day or two PM again. If you don't hear back open a DRP stating the moderator is not replying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Its a helpdesk thread about inconsistent moderation that contains posts that are being inconsistently moderated.
    Posts that draw attention to this are then moderated.

    What conclusion are regular posters expected to draw from these observations, as it would seem to just reinforce the point that the OP (and others) raised?



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Hi @GreeBo can you post me a couple of examples of the posts you mean. I might be able to explain why something was warned when something else wasn't.

    We don't generally discuss individual actions but if I can clarify I will.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I made a post comparing the treatment of posts #599 & #501 and questioning what was different about them.

    I made another post referencing it again and saying that to posters on the receiving end of this treatment, its natural to feel that something funny is going on, you warned me and deleted both my posts saying:

    Do not discuss moderation on thread. And we do not discuss actions taken against other posters.


    Which to me doesn't align with your description of what this thread could have been.

     It could have been used for constructive discussion around the actions of moderators, explanations why some decisions are made, civil discussion between mods and posters. Moderators are open to this. A number of moderators have engaged on this thread.

    I would be interested to know if my own post was reported or if you decided yourself that my example of seemingly inconsistent moderation was me breaching some rules? If users arent allowed to talk about specific moderator actions on a feedback thread about moderator actions, I cant see how it can be a constructive thread?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    In defense of BBOC I critiqued him earlier in the thread for warning they'd go back and eg. give everything 4 points for 'being a dick' etc. and they haven't had to quite carry through on that threat, more people have seemingly copped on from the warning than/to despite a few not.

    I don't think people would like the outcome if they went for radical consistency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Again, my point is about what you're saying in the end, moderator is not replying. As in, they choose no to reply. They choose to be (arguably mildly) uncivil towards the user, and waste everyone's time by pushing the user to open a DR thread when everything could have been resolved with a PM.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    The warning you got was a 0 point, so a notice. You were asked to not comment on moderation, a standard request on any thread. I accept this thread is about moderation in general. Discussing specific mod actions applied on this thread is off topic as it always is on thread (yet here we are, eh?). Your offtopic post was deleted because it was only adding to the task of dealing with both posters.

    One user replied to my comment asking what I meant. Their post was a bit dramatic but I took it to be a genuine (if somewhat silly query, but 'no question is a stupid question' I suppose) request to clarify what I had said. Which I did.

    The other poster and I don't like to comment on particular cases but the prison bars weren't up for no reason, decided to throw fuel on the fire by saying the content of my reply was "troubling". It wasn't "troubling". I felt this poster was trolling and stirring and they were warned as such.

    I don't know if your post was reported. But it came in the middle of me trying to deal with the 2 replies that you were questioning. It was easier to delete your post and send you a quick note attached.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    It's very very very rare that a moderator will choose not to reply. Very rare. It's more likely it hasn't been seen, or has been forgotten. If they choose not to reply that can be outlined in the DRP and I have seen decisions overturned because the user has not had a reply in a timely fashion.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The only time I would refuse to respond to a PM was when they were abusive. I remember one person sent me one and then went to DRP only for the mod to tell them to PM me without the abusive language.

    It was upheld.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell




  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    True acd, and it has been mentioned earlier in this thread that no moderator is expected to respond to abusive or demanding PMs.

    It's why we encourage posters to approach the dispute resolution civilly. No name calling. No digs.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I believe I agreed about an hour ago that it isn't acceptable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Firstly, thanks for the reply.
    I stand by my point that its not going to be that productive a thread without using actual examples, otherwise its all too theoretical, but any who.

    So basically you are using past behaviour to influence how you interpret each poster's posts, to me that is just adding work to the mods. If you are going to (arguably correctly!) negatively interpret posts a poster makes, why not just ban them and be done with it? Its just adding noise to threads, adding work to mods and most likely leading to others posters reacting to these posts and creating yet more noise/work/bans.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    To ask my question again, the first criteria, why is it so important that the mod be someone active in the forum?

    As it currently stands context or culture is not being looked at anyway, so clearly it can be modded without that criteria. Context and culture is not needed to action flagrant rules breaches, so somebody could clear up a lot of those hundreds of reports without having to know any context.

    For years we are told it is impossible to get mods, would it not make sense to widen the pool by removing that criteria?

    We are told there are dozens of mods happily looking after their own forums, is it the case that absolutely none of them are prepared to action 10/20 of those reported posts once a week and ease the burden on the admins?

    Again, they don't have to get down into the septic tank, they can leave the awkward reports and cases for the admins, but Beasty says he has 400+ reports to look through, surely a lot of them are low hanging fruit that could be cleared out without any drama?



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    To ask my question again, the first criteria, why is it so important that the mod be someone active in the forum?

    It's not really. It's the regular posters who seem to want someone who's active, knows the lay of the land etc.

    In all other forums the moderators are prolific posters. Active in the forum. Interested in contributing positively to the forum etc.

    We are considering various options. We have some names. Current moderators of other forums are reluctant to step forward to volunteer for CA. I don't blame them. Like we have said previously, it's rarely just case of action a few posts. Although with the introduction of no appeal it might make a few more likely to step forward. @Necro did. Let's see how long that lasts 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    As it currently stands context or culture is not being looked at anyway,

    And I don't think it was the wider context and culture of the thread that was being asked to be taken into account, only the context of the post, what it was directly responding to, the couple of posts that led to that. Even someone immersed in the culture of CA/IMHO isn't going to know that without going back a few posts and checking it out



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 6,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Aris


    Isn't there a risk that "parachuting" mods in CA, not familiar with the nuances of the forum, might lead to more warnings, which in turn will create more noise about moderation?

    This is a genuine question BTW - i use CA extremely rarely, and I'm kind of projecting by the state of the various feedback threads.

    2025 gigs: Selofan, Alison Moyet, Wardruna, Gavin Friday, Orla Gartland, The Courettes, Nine Inch Nails, Rhiannon Giddens, New Purple Celebration, Nova Twins



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Good suggestion, but I think the problem is the difficulty in attracting good mods. There are a couple of decent ones on the forums, but I think boards has been scraping the bottom of the barrel with most of the active mods. I suspect the fear is the loss of mods, even if we don't have fair ones to moderate the forum.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    The inconsistent application of what constitutes 'uncivil' is ridiculous. It really is. Threads turn to absolute s**te, no moderation to be seen, no idea what becomes of the reports you make of posts, and then you're as likely to get a warning/ ban for letting the frustration of seeing a discussion derailed and making a sarcastic comment… all of a sudden there's moderation. I've reported personal attacks on other posters made by moderators… doubt anything came of them. You like to think that by reporting clearly out of order posts you're helping to clean up threads, but you've no idea whether they have any affect. So you just stop reporting. But then, you either leave the discussion, waste your time with trolls or get accused of back seat moderation or being uncivil. Its a sure way to see an otherwise decent discussion forum die a death.

    Either moderate consistently so everyone knows where they stand or just let people know that CA is a free for all. People are either interested in genuine discussion or they just want to have a laugh. It can't be one standard of moderation on a Tuesday and then another standard on a Wednesday. May as well pack in engaging with CA if that's the case because there are a limited number of people interested in engaging with trolls and WUMs.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    but I think boards has been scraping the bottom of the barrel with most of the active mods

    Can I ask you to clarify this comment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    The last time I was asked to clarify a comment by an acting mod, I received a thread ban despite the clarification and supporting links.

    My comment in this thread stems from my own experiences here in recent times and are relevant to the topic. Are you genuinely interested in my thoughts relating to my comment, or are are preparing to edit/delete it and follow up with a warning/ban?

    I'm very happy to clarify if the former, as it might give some insight to how I and others think about certain mods and practices. However, if you suspect or believe my comment is somehow uncivil/inflammatory/trolling or whatever else, then proceed as planned, as I think there is no point talking to a mind already made up.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,817 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    All this talk of bias, inconsistency, one sided reporting, poor moderation is all baloney. If you are attracting, repeated, mod “attention” the only way to avoid this is to change your posting style.

    The problem isn’t the site, it’s not the mods, it’s you, and the way you post. Find a way to get your point across without breaking the “site rules” and you will, suddenly, find yourself having very little to do with the mods.

    EmmetSpiceland: Oft imitated but never bettered.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,564 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I'm asking you to clarify why you think that about "most of the active mods".

    It's a very general statement covering a large number of moderators. So I'd like you to clarify it.



This discussion has been closed.
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